A Med Supp Co that actually knows how to sell them?

[springbokhouston]

Maybe? I don't know if this is micro-managing or not. Here's part of my presentation. Keep in mind, we talk about Excess Charges with the Plan F description.

"We've already discussed why Excess Charges are not a significant issue, but I am not a fan of Plan N and there are 2 reasons. One, plan N only works dollar wise if you go to the doctor less than 2 times a month. And if you ARE going more than 2 times a month, then I am probably not going to be able to move you, because at that point, you won't get through underwriting. Second, while my Grandma had plenty of cash to pay the $20 copay when she passed at 91, what she didn't have was the cognitive ability to actually write the check. We aren't doing this for when you are 65. We are doing this for the next 35 years."

Is that what you were asking? If so, then yes. Every client. Every time.

I love it, never heard it put that way but it makes absolute sense. I always use N as a financial backstop before rolling a client to MAPD as a final resort.

 

[sshafran]

Second, while my Grandma had plenty of cash to pay the $20 copay when she passed at 91, what she didn't have was the cognitive ability to actually write the check. We aren't doing this for when you are 65. We are doing this for the next 35 years."

Nice.

 

[vic120]

Maybe? I don't know if this is micro-managing or not. Here's part of my presentation. Keep in mind, we talk about Excess Charges with the Plan F description.

"We've already discussed why Excess Charges are not a significant issue, but I am not a fan of Plan N and there are 2 reasons. One, plan N only works dollar wise if you go to the doctor less than 2 times a month. And if you ARE going more than 2 times a month, then I am probably not going to be able to move you, because at that point, you won't get through underwriting. Second, while my Grandma had plenty of cash to pay the $20 copay when she passed at 91, what she didn't have was the cognitive ability to actually write the check. We aren't doing this for when you are 65. We are doing this for the next 35 years."

Is that what you were asking? If so, then yes. Every client. Every time.

This is a great comment and changes the way I think about plan N, at least for some

 

[goillini52]

Nice.

I agree, but I like springbokhouston's use of Plan N. I don't do MAPD, but I use Plan N to compete with MAPD, or for those that either can't afford a Plan G, or wants to save premium by assuming more risk..like going with a $1,000 deductible on your car insurance instead of a $250 deductible.

Don't know why this shows me quoting Scott...I quoted Vic.

 

[vic120]

I agree, but I like springbokhouston's use of Plan N. I don't do MAPD, but I use Plan N to compete with MAPD, or for those that either can't afford a Plan G, or wants to save premium by assuming more risk..like going with a $1,000 deductible on your car insurance instead of a $250 deductible.

I agree That is why I say for some people, The ones you speak of are not as concerned about the long run but are concerned about the now,

Others who are more concerned about the long run that may be trying to save additional money, For instance, there was one who had plan G with me for 4 years and called 2 weeks ago to save money, I could have saved her $20 per month on another G but I also told her about N and saved her around $50 per month as she does not go to many doctors, I know her as a client for a couple years I know would have went G If I explained it like this

 

[StephanieCJ]

You've seen people on Plan N blindsided to the tune of $1,200 in excess charges (their portion...) yearly that would offset the premium savings?

And you've seen this more than once?

Once is too many, but I've seen it more than once. In my area, the plans G and N are usually within $10-15/month, so there really is no reason not to sell the G when you look at the copays and excess charges. Also, if the premium is only different by $15, then that's only $180/yr, which is significantly less than the potential risk, being in an area where a good portion of doctors don't accept assignment.

 

[MBSC]

If the main concern was excess charges and Plan N (a) not covering them and (b) not having an OOP limit, then I'd agree with Rick in that the risk is small. Going from same price HDF to N is a no-brainer.

But if I were you (or your agent) with your specific concerns, then I would suggest Plan K or Plan L.
- You get some "immediate" benefit...which matters,
- you still get a low-low premium (may depend on state),
- and they have an OOP max which is good for your comfort level with Excess charges.

Part B excess charges do not count toward the OOP max for Plans K and L.

From page 27 of the CMS link below:

The Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 created two new Medigap plans, Plans K and L.

Plans K and L have annual out-of-pocket maximums.

Charges from a doctor who doesn’t accept assignment that exceed Medicare-approved amounts, called “excess charges,” aren’t covered and don’t count toward the out-of-pocket limit. You will have to pay these excess charges. Excess charges are generally limited to 15% above the Medicare-approved amount.

https://www.cms.gov/Outreach-and-Ed...ngProgram/Downloads/2013-Medigap-Workbook.pdf

Plan K does not pay:

* Part B deductible (applies to annual out-of-pocket limit)
* Part B excess charges (do not apply to annual out-of-pocket limit)

Medicare Supplement Plan K vs. Medicare Advantage | CSG Actuarial

 

[kgmom219]

I agree, but I like springbokhouston's use of Plan N. I don't do MAPD, but I use Plan N to compete with MAPD, or for those that either can't afford a Plan G, or wants to save premium by assuming more risk..like going with a $1,000 deductible on your car insurance instead of a $250 deductible.

Don't know why this shows me quoting Scott...I quoted Vic.

Me too.

And then I tell them I need to be introduced to their kids who will be taking over finances at a later date. I think I have 3 couples on N and all of them sent me the kids contact info.

I'm not kidding about the cognitive ability issue. Its a very real concern.

 

[Chazm]

Once is too many, but I've seen it more than once. In my area, the plans G and N are usually within $10-15/month, so there really is no reason not to sell the G when you look at the copays and excess charges. Also, if the premium is only different by $15, then that's only $180/yr, which is significantly less than the potential risk, being in an area where a good portion of doctors don't accept assignment.

For a $15 difference I wouldn’t do a plan N either. But here in FL it’s about a $50 or more difference per month.
Granted I’ve only been doing this for 9 years, but in those 9 years I’ve only heard of excess charges one time. Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville.

I thought I read somewhere that out of all the doctors who accept Medicare, 99 point something percent accept assignment. But that was a few years ago and I can’t quote it.

 

[kgmom219]

For a $15 difference I wouldn’t do a plan N either. But here in FL it’s about a $50 or more difference per month.
Granted I’ve only been doing this for 9 years, but in those 9 years I’ve only heard of excess charges one time. Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville.

I thought I read somewhere that out of all the doctors who accept Medicare, 99 point something percent accept assignment. But that was a few years ago and I can’t quote it.

CMS posted it was still above 98% nationwide a few weeks ago.

Problem is that's ALL providers in 50 states. The number is skewed. And remember, Excess Charges are for providers who do not accept Medicare AND have not opted-out. There's a difference. Its becoming more and more common for docs to opt out.

In 17 years, I have had it once. Its an allergist.

At the end of the day, its the clients decision. Its their policy and their money. As long as it says my name on the agent line, I could care less what they buy, as long as I don't get yelled at later.