Copays vs. HSA's....LEt's Get it ON!!!!!!!!!

[Crabcake Johnny]

It wouldn't matter what Assurant says. It only matters what the HSA legislation says and nowhere does it state that husband and wife cannot have seperate HSA account - only that a family cannot contibure more than "X" dollars. If Assurant had an isue then I'd just write husband and wife One Deductible PPO's and farm out the HSA admin.

And for a little HSA 101 for any newbie here - everyone should be on a HSA.

Male 45, female 45 2 kids in 21113 with Golden Rule:

Copay Saver: $2,500 ded. $2,500 OOP = $513
What does a single person owe? $5,000. What does a family owe? $10,000

HSA 100 - $5,640 ded. 100% coinsurance = $344.

Now let's discuss:

1) For any major event any individual owes about the same amount for either plan.

2) For an exected even where more than one family member has an event it's double the exposure for the copay plan - not so for the HSA.

3) Those copays? They're costing $169 a month in added premium. The average network rate to see a doctor in my area is $60. The copay is $35 so that's an extra $25 to see a doctor and pay for meds. So the question is are you on $169 a month or $2,028 a year worth of meds and doctor visits? If so let me know now because you won't be approved.

 

[STIBROKER]

And for a little HSA 101 for any newbie here - everyone should be on a HSA.

but what people should buy and what people do buy are two different things...and in some case's co~pay plans can be more cost effective.....but the true reality is .....it does not mater what you believe.....its what the client believes(you can try to explain and a good agent can tell if the point is being made....but an agent also has a good back up plan)....you just have to help them not to get screwed....

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Copays can be cost effective? So an exta $150 a month in premium to pay an extra $30 to see a doctor is cost effective?

Most people should be on HSAs to curb abuses of the system. How many tune-up, tire rotations, radiator flushes, belt changes, etc...would you get a year on your car if it was a $30 copay and what would that do to your car insurance rate?

Would the average person be ass out if their car blew up? They sure would. That's why the oil is changed when it should be in when any light comes on it's immediately taken care of.

But go eat like an ass, gain 80 pounds, get high blood pressure, diabetes and high cholesterol and who gives a ****. It's $25 to see the doctor and that generic med's $15. The health insurance company will pay for it.

 

[STIBROKER]

Copays can be cost effective? So an exta $150 a month in premium to pay an extra $30 to see a doctor is cost effective?

Most people should be on HSAs to curb abuses of the system. How many tune-up, tire rotations, radiator flushes, belt changes, etc...would you get a year on your car if it was a $30 copay and what would that do to your car insurance rate?

Would the average person be ass out if their car blew up? They sure would. That's why the oil is changed when it should be in when any light comes on it's immediately taken care of.

But go eat like an ass, gain 80 pounds, get high blood pressure, diabetes and high cholesterol and who gives a ****. It's $25 to see the doctor and that generic med's $15. The health insurance company will pay for it.

you have fun with that........

Copays can be cost effective? So an exta $150 a month in premium to pay an extra $30 to see a doctor is cost effective?

I have crunched the numbers on my own family and yes it can.....and you are leavening out rx co~pays....

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Wife: "Hey honey, I backed out of a space without looking and rammed the car into a light pole. The truck's all caved in. Oh, and the engine light has been on for over 2 weeks."

Husband: "Screw it. It's a $20 copay for the tow truck to call them. And keep drivig on that engine light. If it breaks down it's just another towing copay and we'll take it in the shop then for a $40 copay. Then we'll just rent a car at a $35 copay until it's fixed."

 

[STIBROKER]

Wife: "Hey honey, I backed out of a space without looking and rammed the car into a light pole. The truck's all caved in. Oh, and the engine light has been on for over 2 weeks."

Husband: "Screw it. It's a $20 copay for the tow truck to call them. And keep drivig on that engine light. If it breaks down it's just another towing copay and we'll take it in the shop then for a $40 copay. Then we'll just rent a car at a $35 copay until it's fixed."

is that what you tell your clients......good luck with that....

 

[K-Dub]

I don't get the vibe that you care about the customer, only that you're their agent one way or another.

You can get a vibe by reading what I type huh? Mistake! If I didn't care about the client I'd still be working for UGA!

So, you will use whatever technique is necessary to pitch the product that they don't have. Very questionnable ethics K-Dub...Not cool in my opinion if you do that too often. I know we're in sales and all but c'mon man.

Did I say I do it all the time? Did I say that's the only way I make a living? NO! You really shouldn't assume this type of stuff! If they are on an HSA and they don't like it I will show them something different. I'm not going to recommend a plan just becuase I like it, or I think the client should get it. It's all about the client and their situation, if I feel I can put them in a better plan based on their needs you damn right I will.

Another thing....I'd appreciate it if you never ever, ever again question my ethics!! You don't know me, have never spoken to me and probably never will. Therefore you shouldn't say things like this just because you got a bad vibe reading what I wrote. Maybe you should go back a re-read what I wrote, maybe look at the situation differently!

When I run into an HSA customer, I will often tell them to stay put, especially if they're well into that year's deductible or if that particular HDHP meets their needs.

I agree and would do the same, yes it is what's best for the client! I assume everyone on the board is on the same page with that statement!

I do this because I believe in this type of program and will willingly walk away from cases that could be sales with the use of various "techniques." Plus, there's the fund itself that they may have contributed to already and now I'm going to come around with some "technique" to uproot a good health plan strategy with a plan that has tripple the potential OOP simply because you say.....#1?

You believe in this program so everyone else should to huh? I'm off my rocker because I'm not the biggest fan of the HSA. The funds they have in their HSA can be used if they come off of an HSA, so what's the big deal?

We're in the business of protecting our clients from major risk. 15K worth of OOP versus 5K of OOP just so that they can have precious, overrated copay on office visits is bad advice in my opinion. Just my opinion. Some here agree, some don't. I think deep down you know I'm correct. Hence your choice of family plan.

Some of the plans that I sell have the co-pay built in to the plan...and guess what? The co-pay plan is less expensive than the HSA!! There is a time and a place for an HSA, I'm not going to shove it down someone's throat just because I believe in it!

 

[newmindfashion]

GreenSky - "Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is even if both spouses have separate plans, the TOTAL they could put into the HSA is $2,850.

Am I understanding that if there are separate plans, EACH can contribute the maximum individual amount for a TOTAL of $5,700?"

Rick, why would two separate HSA compatible policies be restricted to $2850 total and one fund? That would penalize the second policy-holder from opening up an HSA which is their right under the law when they obtain an HSA compatible health policy as an individual.

Now, if they're filing jointly, they may have to limit their contribution to $2850 in one HSA and $2800 in the other since the overall family limit is $5650.

Gentlemen (and women),
Let's put this to bed once and for all. The idea that there is only one HSA fund allowed per family or couple is most certainly wrong because when both the husband and wife are over 55 and on the same HSA compatible health insurance plan, they both cannot fund their "catch-up" contributions in the same HSA. A second "spousal" HSA must be opened for the second spouse's catch-up amont. If there was only one HSA fund allowed per family, why would spouses be required to open up this "spousal" HSA?

HSA Road Rules (Edition 3) from the HSAInsider.com web site states on page 15: "If both spouses want to make catch-up contributions, each spouse must have a separate health savings account."

HSA Road Rules (Edition 5) states that "you must have an HSA qualified high deductible health plan to open or contribute to a Health Savings Account in your own name." (page 3) In addition, it says "if a family has all its members covered under two HSA qualified high deductble health plans or some family members are on one qualified plan and the other family members are under another qualified plan, the maximum annual contribution to the account remains in force." (page 5)

In short, there is nothing to prevent someone from having multiple HSAs (even with different custodians) provided that the maximum single or family contributions are not exceeded (i.e. $2850 for self-only coverage and $5650 for a family).

 

[newmindfashion]

Kris,
Yes. I can get a vibe when you say:
"By the way I can easily replace an HSA with a Co-Pay plan, and a Co-Pay plan with an HSA! There are techniques that I have picked up that make it an easy sale!! Bring on either one!"

Just doesn't sound real sincere to me personally. However, you may in fact be a great guy and a very ethical agent. Perhaps you were just beating your chest with sales bravado. No biggie.

 

[newmindfashion]

Kris,
Although I'm not a huge fan of your original post, questionning your ethics was out of line on my part since I don't know you. My apologies. Have a good weekend.


Jesse