Don't Work With Pinney Insurance

[JRoot]

I can see this as the beginning of the "Insurance Forum's Agent Union" where the motto is "Treat us right according to our contracts, or we'll smash and destroy your reputation online."


Y'all can begin by sending your union dues to me via Paypal.

As it should be. It's bad for the industry to have BGA's treat their agents like this.

The thing is, this thread hasn't effected Pinney's decision as I still haven't heard from them, so I'll apply pressure elsewhere. I informed their IMO (LifeMark Partners) this week and we'll see if they take action to influence Pinney to do the right thing. They must have a code of ethics for their member firms.

If LifeMark Partners doesn't take action or can't influence them, MDRT is my next target to apply pressure. Ryan Pinney is MDRT's VP of Guided Development from 2016-2017 yet he doesn't sell insurance and somehow gets Top of the Table status every year.

Waiting to see how or if LifeMark even responds before I take that route. Will update again in a week or 2.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

As it should be. It's bad for the industry to have BGA's treat their agents like this.

The thing is, this thread hasn't effected Pinney's decision as I still haven't heard from them, so I'll apply pressure elsewhere. I informed their IMO (LifeMark Partners) this week and we'll see if they take action to influence Pinney to do the right thing. They must have a code of ethics for their member firms.

If LifeMark Partners doesn't take action or can't influence them, MDRT is my next target to apply pressure. Ryan Pinney is MDRT's VP of Guided Development from 2016-2017 yet he doesn't sell insurance and somehow gets Top of the Table status every year.

Waiting to see how or if LifeMark even responds before I take that route. Will update again in a week or 2.

And if nothing comes out of that course of action - what is the next move?

I wonder if setting up a union would cause insurance companies to accelerate cutting us out completely like what's happening with retail restaurants.

 

[nylife11023]

And if nothing comes out of that course of action - what is the next move?

I wonder if setting up a union would cause insurance companies to accelerate cutting us out completely ....

For a traditional union there has to be an employee/employer relationship and since indie agents are... indie... the idea of a union that has bargaining power/authority is simply not coherent.

The same kind of fight is going on with employees of chain restaurants which are franchises. For example, in a McDonalds which is owned by a franchisee the staff work for the franchisee (owner) and not for McDonalds corporate. There is litigation and legislation now trying to create some kind of co-employer status of the corporate entity (McDonalds, the public company) and the franchisee (Mr. Smith who owns your local Mickey D's.) That would allow established unions to organize all the restaurant workers of McD and maybe get bargaining power.

I would say that 98% of insurance agents simply hate unions. Most here don't believe that working people HAVE a right to unionize much less should even do so. I don't know where the anti-union bias comes from in the agent community but it is surely there.

Perhaps a strong agent association might have some influence with carriers and BGAs. Currently the major associations, NAFA and NAHU are pretty much bought and paid for by the carriers and the major GAs.

Agents (of all types) are part of a murky part of the law, often called statutory employees. You can't set your own rates/fees nor have much control over most of the products you sell and your commissions are reported on a 1099, but you have other perks of being self-employed.

One issue that the industry has is that the ease of entry is so low such that anyone who wants to be an indie agent can be one by taking a simple state test and paying the E&O fees. With most of the carriers and GAs it is simply a numbers game. They contract with 100 agents knowing that maybe only 20 will bring in some business. They have no real incentive to train anyone because they just play the numbers game as they have for generations.

And if they want to screw you, they do... because they can and there is nothing you can do about it.

The only place I know where agents have real value and some 'say' about their comp is in a captive house. The few captives out there spend time and money training their agents do a lot to keep them happy and productive. I know most people here don't like the captive (so-called 'career') houses but a lot of that (but not all of it) is out of ignorance. The problem with captive houses is that almost every local office is autonomous and that you can have two agencies ten miles from each other and one is run by super management and the other is run by deadwood.

At the end of the day, the only way JR is going to get his due is via threatened or actual litigation. There are lawyers out there who can help him. I know you all hate lawyers, but they and their skill-sets are rather nice to have around when someone screws you over and saying bad things about them in a chat-group is not effective (which is evident in this case, so far.)

My hat is off to those of you who stay in this sector of the biz and who are successful in it because it is hard on so many levels. There are so many easier (maybe not better) ways to make a career in the financial services industry... and make more money as well.

I wish JR all the best. My advice is to hire a lawyer which will facilitate following what Al Capone once said, "It is easier to get what you want with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."

.

 

[DHK]

And if nothing comes out of that course of action - what is the next move?

I wonder if setting up a union would cause insurance companies to accelerate cutting us out completely like what's happening with retail restaurants.

I was joking, but only to a point.

The truth is that (most) agents can produce for whomever they want. If an insurance company or brokerage does an agent wrong, then that agent is not trapped (aside from holding back renewals or other income that they earned or generated overrides). The agent can go contract with any other company.

Unions are best for those who are in professions that truly are limited in hiring scope - such as utilities, amusement park employees (Disney, etc.), and those who are in other specialty trades.

As agents, we have associations and we have the power of the written word through this forum and others.


As far as replacing us with "order taking" machines, that depends on how you're doing business. Doing any kind of 'advanced planning', or rather 'bringing a higher level of thinking to your planning'... only comes through relationships and with human beings. If you're only selling on a "features/benefits/price/results" approach, then those days may be numbered.

Of course, JRoot has built up a great website to be a pioneer in selling term life insurance exactly like that. "If you can build it (and promote it), they will come."

 

[JRoot]

And if nothing comes out of that course of action - what is the next move?

I'll continue to be a thorn in their side until I'm paid. There's MDRT, NAIFA and a few other cards I'd prefer not to say.

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My advice is to hire a lawyer which will facilitate following what Al Capone once said, "It is easier to get what you want with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."

Appreciate the advice.

I have an attorney lined up in Placer County (where the contract states I have to), but I want to influence them to do the right thing first. If not from me, maybe others in the industry like LifeMark, MDRT, NAIFA and other avenues.

 

[CALTCAgent]

Is the contract that was signed with Pinney somewhere to read ?

 

[ExProgrammer]

And if nothing comes out of that course of action - what is the next move?

I wonder if setting up a union would cause insurance companies to accelerate cutting us out completely like what's happening with retail restaurants.

How about a car vending machine? Here's one now:

https://www.carvana.com/vendingmachine

 

[Surancedawg]

How about a car vending machine? Here's one now:

https://www.carvana.com/vendingmachine

Be just my luck, the machine took my money and the car got stuck while dispensing!

 

[JRoot]

Still no contact from Pinney Insurance or even LifeMark.

I found out this thread made it's way on an email chain within LifeMark member firms already - I'm glad that their own peers, whom they see once every year, know what they're doing.

I left a Facebook review on Pinney's FB page and they deleted all their reviews since 2013 within 10 minutes of posting it. You can't remove reviews on FB, you can only remove the ability to leave and see reviews.

They can sweep under the rug all they want. I'm just getting started. There is no room in this industry for a BGA to do this to any agent. I thought by now, they'd come to their senses and do the ethical thing.

Now it's time to reach out to the execs at MDRT, their local NAIFA and their "Elite" Partners (other agencies receiving bonus above street level). I'll update again in a few weeks. This should get interesting.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

Still no contact from Pinney Insurance or even LifeMark.

I found out this thread made it's way on an email chain within LifeMark member firms already - I'm glad that their own peers, whom they see once every year, know what they're doing.

I left a Facebook review on Pinney's FB page and they deleted all their reviews since 2013 within 10 minutes of posting it. You can't remove reviews on FB, you can only remove the ability to leave and see reviews.

They can sweep under the rug all they want. I'm just getting started. There is no room in this industry for a BGA to do this to any agent. I thought by now, they'd come to their senses and do the ethical thing.

Now it's time to reach out to the execs at MDRT, their local NAIFA and their "Elite" Partners (other agencies receiving bonus above street level). I'll update again in a few weeks. This should get interesting.

I would like to recommend, nothing gets vito's attention like a Press Release, especially one optimized towards the financial and insurance sector...