- 648
Just wondering, have the claims been commercial or personal lines?
E & O Deductible Sharing
- Thread starter agentonline
- Start date
Just wondering, have the claims been commercial or personal lines?
- 4,132
You're a W2 employee, you are under the agency's E&O. Don't think he can do that to you and I wouldn't tolerate it. He can certainly ask, but how enforceable it would be is doubtful if not contractually spelled out, even then I question if he could legally do that.
To answer your question, I've never heard of an agency charging even a portion of the E&O deductible to an employee. At the same time, its not something I've ever asked agency owners about. Most don't have many E&O claims and wouldn't think about it. E&O claims do happen in P&C though, so I understand it, somewhat.
My issue is if you are causing problems that present an E&O risk, then they should correct that, from training to firing. If you are doing things 'per the agency' then the problem isn't yours. An E&O claim can always come up, but if you did things correctly, then you shouldn't be responsible. Especially if you followed agency procedure.
I've known a lot of companies to tell employees they had to pay deductibles if they crashed the company car. At the same time, I've never known a company to actually do that. Most use it as a 'threat' to make you treat stuff better. I do know a few employees that have bought new laptops that got stolen though (not in insurance, agents are usually to cheap to provide laptops to employees).
I wouldn't sign anything accepting these terms. If everything else is okay though, I wouldn't sweat it to much either. Write good, clean business and the E&O monster stays away (usually).
Dan
My issue is if you are causing problems that present an E&O risk, then they should correct that, from training to firing. If you are doing things 'per the agency' then the problem isn't yours. An E&O claim can always come up, but if you did things correctly, then you shouldn't be responsible. Especially if you followed agency procedure.
I've known a lot of companies to tell employees they had to pay deductibles if they crashed the company car. At the same time, I've never known a company to actually do that. Most use it as a 'threat' to make you treat stuff better. I do know a few employees that have bought new laptops that got stolen though (not in insurance, agents are usually to cheap to provide laptops to employees).
I wouldn't sign anything accepting these terms. If everything else is okay though, I wouldn't sweat it to much either. Write good, clean business and the E&O monster stays away (usually).
Dan
- 2,908
That only seems odd to you. Whenever there is a lack of clarity in any business relationship it usually works to the advantage of one of the parties. You are trying to understand the business world through the mindset of an employee rather than a business owner or entrepreneur. You will do fine where you are until the winds blow against you and then you won't. Tis what you signed up for and what suits your temperament. Otherwise you would be concerned about larger issues than the e and o deductible.
If you just had a quick question about the deductible it would be one thing, but as Rick noted, it is really symptomatic of being a w-2 serf. Probably you dont even have an understanding of what would become of your commissions if you left. If there are no written agreements, then how do you think that will happen? You think the owners are someday going to announce that this is a good day to talk about written agreements? Good luck wit dat. Don't assume either that written agreements protect you. They are usually written by the employer on a take it or leave it basis. You don't sound like you bring a lot of savvy or bargaining power to the table but that just goes with the employee mindset where you just keep working for the man until the man doesnt need you anymore.
You may be fine where you are because life in the jungle has its trials and most people are suited to be employees at best but you do have to put up with the little indignities. The man has told you what the e and o arrangement is. What do you want us to do about it? Help you to whine or help you to interpret the non-existent written contract? All things considered you might have a good arrangement for what you bring to the table and the cards that you have/don't have to play. We don't know.
- Thread starter
- #15
agentonline
New Member
- 13
Again, thanks for the replies.
Winter, you are a bit presumptuous.
This is not whining - just a simple query. There has been no ongoing problem with e&o. I am sure the owner is just using it as an incentive to sharpen underwriting on the part of the agents. I am considering it as a bargaining chip on my side.
Happy New Year!
Winter, you are a bit presumptuous.
This is not whining - just a simple query. There has been no ongoing problem with e&o. I am sure the owner is just using it as an incentive to sharpen underwriting on the part of the agents. I am considering it as a bargaining chip on my side.
Happy New Year!
- 11,272
Winter brings up an excellent point, and you'd be wise to consider it.
I watch business reality TV shows - particularly Restaurant: Impossible and Hotel: Impossible. When there is a "breakdown" in policy or procedure, it can usually be traced back to a lack of "standard operating procedures".
In these shows, some employers didn't spell out their standards, so they can't fire employees when they break the 'unspoken standard'. Robert Irvine or Anthony Melchiorri will then introduce a new "standard operating procedures" book and have each employee sign that they have received and understood it. Now they can be held accountable.
The employer/employee relationship should be spelled out in a contract or agreement. Especially in our business where it's rather common for employees to leave and want to keep their clients and commissions, it should be spelled out as to what the employee is entitled to... or not.
Without such a contract, you're simply a licensed hourly employee. Nothing wrong with that... unless you eventually want to be something more.
The E&O question that you have... really IS an indication of something else going on in that business. Lack of agreements and such really shows a lack of business accumen on the part of these agency owners.
I'd start looking for other places and compare to your current situation. You don't have to rush this, but I'd start looking around - especially if you think your compensation is lower than what is normally paid.
I watch business reality TV shows - particularly Restaurant: Impossible and Hotel: Impossible. When there is a "breakdown" in policy or procedure, it can usually be traced back to a lack of "standard operating procedures".
In these shows, some employers didn't spell out their standards, so they can't fire employees when they break the 'unspoken standard'. Robert Irvine or Anthony Melchiorri will then introduce a new "standard operating procedures" book and have each employee sign that they have received and understood it. Now they can be held accountable.
The employer/employee relationship should be spelled out in a contract or agreement. Especially in our business where it's rather common for employees to leave and want to keep their clients and commissions, it should be spelled out as to what the employee is entitled to... or not.
Without such a contract, you're simply a licensed hourly employee. Nothing wrong with that... unless you eventually want to be something more.
The E&O question that you have... really IS an indication of something else going on in that business. Lack of agreements and such really shows a lack of business accumen on the part of these agency owners.
I'd start looking for other places and compare to your current situation. You don't have to rush this, but I'd start looking around - especially if you think your compensation is lower than what is normally paid.
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