Guardian or Penn Whole life

Jan 28, 2019

  1. DHK
    Offline

    DHK "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

    Posts:
    8,262
    Likes Received:
    2,047
    State:
    California
    I wouldn't try doing this without trying to time the economy. No, not the stock market... the economy.

    Just wait until after a market crash (and you have all your money available to borrow against) and wait for some Government Official to say that "We're going to 'stimulate' the economy." That's when you invest... watch it grow... and pay the loan back.
     
    DHK, May 7, 2019
    #31
  2. Lloyds of Lubbock
    Offline

    Lloyds of Lubbock Super Genius

    Posts:
    132
    Likes Received:
    54
    State:
    Florida
    Could you borrow from a whole life policy at invest at a higher rate creating an arbitrage?
    That is a lot of risk.
    There are many reasons to access your cash values that have nothing to do with investing that money.
    The fact that you have diffent options is a positive.
    I collateralized a policy for a real estate down payment.
    No credit check, nothing on my credit report and I had the money in 3 days.
     
  3. Purdue
    Offline

    Purdue New Member

    Posts:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    State:
    Indiana
    you have to be content that your premiums compounded without paying any TAXES (sorry said interest by mistake) all these years?
     
    Purdue, May 7, 2019
    #33
  4. pfg1
    Offline

    pfg1 Guru

    Posts:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    268
    State:
    Virginia
    What you mentioned is not necessarily about spread. Yes, you could get a spread. Its about having your money growing and compounding, AND being able to use it at the same time. Most people have to remove their money from a position of growth in order to use it. Having liquidity use and control of your money through this vehicle is a good thing. Positive arbitrage is a bonus and tax free growth and use is great. If someone has a 401k it should definitely be utilized at least to the match, imo.
     
    pfg1, May 8, 2019
    #34
  5. scagnt83
    Offline

    scagnt83 Worldwide Expert of Everything

    Posts:
    7,088
    Likes Received:
    608
    State:
    South Carolina
    This is not correct. They do not get higher or lower dividends. They get the same Dividend rate. One just carriers a higher expense load than the other rating.

    Same Dividend, different expenses.
     
  6. scagnt83
    Offline

    scagnt83 Worldwide Expert of Everything

    Posts:
    7,088
    Likes Received:
    608
    State:
    South Carolina
    You have to understand that not all agents are experts in these products. Even the ones who pitch it on a regular basis.

    There can also be differences of opinions when it comes to suitability and which carrier/product/design is best for a particular situation.

    From a percentage basis, you get the Dividend rate as a percentage, minus expenses. Obviously the amount of CV you have will dictate the exact dollar figure.
     
  7. scagnt83
    Offline

    scagnt83 Worldwide Expert of Everything

    Posts:
    7,088
    Likes Received:
    608
    State:
    South Carolina
    This is total bullsh*t. Find a new agent.

    WL does not have changing expenses once in-force. One of the main features of WL is that expenses are guaranteed and level. They cannot and willnot increase per the contract.

    This agent is confusing IUL and WL in those comments. IUL/UL has "current" expenses, and "maximum" or "guaranteed" expenses. And yes, most illustrations use the current expenses for IUL.

    But WL expenses are Guaranteed and do not change.

    ----

    The Underwriting in relation to your health will matter a hell of a lot more than what carrier you go with. Penn, Mass, Guardian, NYL, NWM, they all have solid WL policies with 100s of years of consistent dividend history. And none of them has "higher" dividends on a long term historical basis, they are all within the same general range generally speaking over a 30-40 year period.

    Personally, Penn/Mass/Guardian are my go to WL carriers. UW is the very first thing I look at when recommending which a client should go with. And usually I can knock out at least 1 of the 3 based on UW.

    If you have not evaluated UW, then you are wasting your time with all of this analysis of Dividends and expenses. (the older you are, the more important this is)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  8. Allen Trent
    Offline

    Allen Trent Guru

    Posts:
    408
    Likes Received:
    278
    while I agree almost entirely with your statement, I do believe Dividends are impacted by the actual carrier mortality experience & expenses being currently incurred at the time, not just the worst case guaranteed mortality & expenses built into their guaranteed policy assumptions. So, you are correct that WL doesn't have changing expenses within a specific clients policy, but the overall carrier expenses & mortality experience will impact the policy performance due to the impact to the Dividend able to be credited. This is basically what has caused most, if not all, WL carriers to pay lower dividends today compared to what was originally illustrated. A lot of the impact is from investment returns for the carrier, but some carriers are indeed having much higher expenses than originally priced into the policy design & in some rare cases worse mortality experience.
     
  9. scagnt83
    Offline

    scagnt83 Worldwide Expert of Everything

    Posts:
    7,088
    Likes Received:
    608
    State:
    South Carolina
    That is very different than the comment I was replying to. But I do get your point, and you are correct.

    Carrier Declared Dividends are dependent on the performance of the company, and the expenses the company incurs. That varies, and what is currently being incurred is what they use to calculate declared dividends (at least I think thats true for most carriers).

    But within the legally binding Life Insurance Contract the client receives; Policy Expenses are Guaranteed and Level for a WL policy.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  10. Allen Trent
    Offline

    Allen Trent Guru

    Posts:
    408
    Likes Received:
    278
    True. whoever the agent is involved in this case is definitely spinning the situation to disparage the others or the insured is mixing information from 1 product discussion like a UL/IUL into the WL part of the discussion
     
Loading...