"History of Heart Disease" Disclosure, Term Coverage Suggestions, Retirement Goal of Living Abroad

[ddavid1101]

Hi everyone,

Question 1:
My dad recently had a mild heart attack in July. He's 65 and fit and lives in Canada(NOT US Resident). No history of heart conditions in the family previous to this.

Does that mean I have to declare that there is a history of heart condition in the family? Prob move me down from Best to Preferred no?

Question 2:
We plan on retiring abroad(europe,asia,Central/South America). Do insurance coverage stay in force when you live abroad?

Question 3: Coverage Options.
Info:
I'm 32, just got married in Jan. Looking to start a family soon(hoping for 2-3 kids). Recently relocated from NYC to Dallas. Wife is 34. Combined income is at around 150K and should be moving up to 200K in about 2-3 years. Current savings rate is around 30%. Looking to get some life insurance coverage. Looking at mainly staggering/layering term policies(cheaper and to fit needs). We dont plan on getting any or much perm coverage. No debt 300K in cash. Planning to buy a house in 6 months (250Kish price tag).

Other than say 200K in mortgage which we plan to pay off in 10-15 years tops, we have no debt and more savings. Looking for term to cover mortgage, loss in income and kids education. We hope to retire early, 55ish, you dont need much to retire on when you are abroad.

I like what this guy did under plan B:
"Let me just bounce this off of you and please, feel free to point out if I’m crazy. Let’s say you are 45 years old and you have determined that you currently need $750,000 of life insurance. You have a 15 year old child. You are loving what you do for a living and currently anticipate working until age 65, maybe 70. You own a house with a $250,000 balance on the mortgage and have 20 years left to pay on it. Your assets are growing nicely and you’re thinking by age 75, conservatively, you should be able to sustain a comfortable retirement for you and your bride.

Agent A comes along and suggests you buy a $750,000, 30 year term policy. That should cover all of those things he says. Health wise you qualify for a preferred rate, so you’re looking at $1940 annually, $173 per month.

Agent B comes along and suggests that there may be a more appropriate way to layer your insurance coverage so that it matches your needs more closely. He suggests that we look at a package of 4 policies. $250,000 of 10 year term, $250,000 of 20 year term, $200,000 of 30 year term and $50,000 of permanent coverage."

Any one have suggestions on how we can do the same or where we can find reading material/calculators for layering your policies?

Also, any suggestions to find a good agent to do this? I was thinking of just doing piece by piece via online.

 

[STIBROKER]

Also, any suggestions to find a good agent to do this? I was thinking of just doing piece by piece via online.

you can get true rates here on my site .... Health Analyzer ... you might want to also look at GUL's





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[LGilmore]

"Question 1:
My dad recently had a mild heart attack in July. He's 65 and fit and lives in Canada(NOT US Resident). No history of heart conditions in the family previous to this.

Does that mean I have to declare that there is a history of heart condition in the family? Prob move me down from Best to Preferred no?"

Short answer YES. But some companies only ask if prior to age 60. So as you look at companies let your agent know upfront. Don't risk an entire policy over a couple % off the premium.
Question 2:
We plan on retiring abroad(europe,asia,Central/South America). Do insurance coverage stay in force when you live abroad?
Yes.


Question 3: Coverage Options.
Info:
I'm 32, just got married in Jan. Looking to start a family soon(hoping for 2-3 kids). Recently relocated from NYC to Dallas. Wife is 34. Combined income is at around 150K and should be moving up to 200K in about 2-3 years. Current savings rate is around 30%. Looking to get some life insurance coverage. Looking at mainly staggering/layering term policies(cheaper and to fit needs). We dont plan on getting any or much perm coverage. No debt 300K in cash. Planning to buy a house in 6 months (250Kish price tag).

Other than say 200K in mortgage which we plan to pay off in 10-15 years tops, we have no debt and more savings. Looking for term to cover mortgage, loss in income and kids education. We hope to retire early, 55ish, you dont need much to retire on when you are abroad.

I like what this guy did under plan B:
"Let me just bounce this off of you and please, feel free to point out if I’m crazy. Let’s say you are 45 years old and you have determined that you currently need $750,000 of life insurance. You have a 15 year old child. You are loving what you do for a living and currently anticipate working until age 65, maybe 70. You own a house with a $250,000 balance on the mortgage and have 20 years left to pay on it. Your assets are growing nicely and you’re thinking by age 75, conservatively, you should be able to sustain a comfortable retirement for you and your bride.

Agent A comes along and suggests you buy a $750,000, 30 year term policy. That should cover all of those things he says. Health wise you qualify for a preferred rate, so you’re looking at $1940 annually, $173 per month.

Agent B comes along and suggests that there may be a more appropriate way to layer your insurance coverage so that it matches your needs more closely. He suggests that we look at a package of 4 policies. $250,000 of 10 year term, $250,000 of 20 year term, $200,000 of 30 year term and $50,000 of permanent coverage."

Any one have suggestions on how we can do the same or where we can find reading material/calculators for layering your policies?
Look at it from both ways. You can with many policies reduce the face amount as time goes by. Have them lay out the options for you.
Take a look a more WL as well. If you're saving money like you are, WL's make a great bank to park some in the form of cash values. It's safe in many ways, boosts your DB, doesn't go backwards like your other portfolios can, has tax advantages and with most companies can be wire transfered in about 48 hours to your bank account for emergencies.

The other thing and this never gets mentioned is look at how your plan would work "if your life doesn't go to plan" . Any term you buy make sure it is convertable. Look hard at disability insurance in case one of you ends up on the couch rather than a coffin. If you went with WL as used it as a safe growth part of your overall plan, how much are you really giving up? In which markets? I mean it was a bit hard to keep the faith when the stock market was climbing. But later on when the stock market kicked me squarely in the balls and a decade of growth was wiped away in days, my WL cash values just kept on growing adding to the pot that had no leaks in it. WL is extremely boring, as it should be. But when the market is in turmoil, knowing some of your money is boringly moving in the right direction settles the nerves a bit.
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[ddavid1101]

Take a look a more WL as well. If you're saving money like you are, WL's make a great bank to park some in the form of cash values. It's safe in many ways, boosts your DB, doesn't go backwards like your other portfolios can, has tax advantages and with most companies can be wire transfered in about 48 hours to your bank account for emergencies.

The other thing and this never gets mentioned is look at how your plan would work "if your life doesn't go to plan" . Any term you buy make sure it is convertable. Look hard at disability insurance in case one of you ends up on the couch rather than a coffin. If you went with WL as used it as a safe growth part of your overall plan, how much are you really giving up? In which markets? I mean it was a bit hard to keep the faith when the stock market was climbing. But later on when the stock market kicked me squarely in the balls and a decade of growth was wiped away in days, my WL cash values just kept on growing adding to the pot that had no leaks in it. WL is extremely boring, as it should be. But when the market is in turmoil, knowing some of your money is boringly moving in the right direction settles the nerves a bit.
[/LEFT][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll keep in mind about insurance company requirements on CVD disclosure.

In regards to WL, I'm just not a huge fan of it. I once was going to work at Metlife about a good 8 years ago, got my life and health series 7 and 63 etc. The schedules just didnt look attractive to me.

My wife and I are quiet international. She's from brazil, I'm born in china but raised in Canada and citizen of all. My family have an import export business and her family are in business in Brazil. We do plan on investing overseas both in business and in real estate. We are both in Finance (she's doing her CPA and I'll prob do it too) so we like numbers and will get really in to taxes etc. I dont think we fit the typical WL buyer profile. Though I have not seen a WL quote and all the numbers for quiet a while.

Your point about disability insurance is something I have never considered nor looked at. I will have to look into this. My wife attempted to take STD while at work but was denied last year. She had some severe depression for a couple of months. Ended up losing her job etc. She's better now and working. But the criteria for STD was very vague and against you(employee).

She was in a highly stressful position working 60hr/w doing dividend forecasting etc. When she was at her state, she could not focus nor work at her normal. Doctors backed it up in reports and notes which was provided. STD denied it saying she is capable of working a "NORMAL" job. yes, at McDonald's or Walmart, sure. Not at a Financial company crunching and sourcing numbers from different countries in different languages with daily tight deadlines for the banks. STD or disability is easy enough to enroll and pay for but a total pain to claim, unless you are physically disabled.

But I still have to look into it(hoping it's a nominal rate).

Any other suggestions? I want to get something soon but probably not a full package(all the layered policies etc) but just need to start now. Only got about 200-300K in coverage through work for each of us.

 

[STIBROKER]

T
In regards to WL, I'm just not a huge fan of it. I once was going to work at Metlife about a good 8 years ago, got my life and health series 7 and 63 etc. The schedules just didnt look attractive to me.
.

that is why my clients like GUL's..........

 

[BNTRS]

Number 1: it depends on the company. Some care, some don't. You can use the health analyzer at Term4Sale - Instant Term Life Insurance Comparisons to get an idea of who would be the most lenient based on this, and all other health considerations.

Number 2: Yes

Number 3: Layering has a few stated approaches:

1. Reducing premium long term as certain needs may disappear. However, you can always change (reduce) death benefit in almost all cases so this has become much less important. You'll also spend more money buying multiple term policies as they all have small policy fees that would be eliminated if you had one policy.

The other approach is a tad more salesman-ish: to make you more intimately attached to the policy. There is some research that shows people are less likely to lapse a policy if they know, for example, that it was put in place to pay off the mortgage or pay for college for the kids, etc.

Having some permanent coverage is a good idea. Or convertible term insurance at the very least. Things change; financial prudence is about preparation (i.e. seeing that possibility no matter how small, and having a plan if it becomes a reality).

If this is your first individual insurance purchase, these might be helpful:

The Term Life Insurance Quoting Game | The Insurance Pro Blog

You're Buying Life Insurance--quoting and the application | The Insurance Pro Blog

Life Insurance How To: Underwriting | The Insurance Pro Blog

Full disclosure: I own the insurance pro blog (so of course I like those resources)

 

[dgoldenz]

You need disability insurance. Individual DI is far different than group DI. Your wife would be a tough case with mental health history already, but I would definitely look into it for both of you. What's the plan if one or both of you can't work and that $100-150k goes away?

Short story - group DI sucks, individual DI is much more comprehensive. With life insurance you are either dead or not dead, pretty simple. With DI, whether a claim is valid depends on the policy's terms and definitions. The group DI policy she had probably said something to the effect of "if you are able to work in any occupation...." that they would not consider her disabled instead of the preferred definition of "if you are unable to perform the material and substantial duties of your own occupation..." they would consider that to be disabled. Even long term group policies usually limit that own-occupation definition to 2 years max, while an individual policy can go to age 67 with that definition.

 

[LGilmore]

have you asked why you're not a huge fan of it? As I said it is boring doesn't really ride market cycles. Usually those who compare it do so with a regular stock, usually with that 12% return... So how does it do? Pretty bad in comparision. Yet I really haven't a stock that consistently provides 12% year after year with the same risk profile. When you look at it, make sure your comparision is a fair one. Comparing it to a Pacific rim fund that might return 35% (and might lose 35%) isn't really a fair comparision. Why do I say this? All my money is not in WL, I am invested. Where do you think the nut shot came from? I wasn't being hypothetical at that momment. MY WL has basically replaced part of my bond portfolio. I still do the other stuff, but again it is nice to know that if my other stuff screws up, I have a dull boring consistent asset that does what it promises better than just about anything else. The thing about looking at it now is it never gets cheaper. Locking mine in during my late 20's sure feels good in my 50's. Especially when compared to what it would cost me now to buy it, along with my health changes.

As for DI, the words are everything and I mean everything. Your wife got screwed over because her condition didn't meet their definition of disability. Pretty much when it is all said and done there is only one sentence you're paying for with a DI policy and that is What is disability under this contract. That sentence should be short and sweet, longer means they are giving you their reasons not to pay the claim. That said, that one sentence will cost ya. Before you focus in on cost with a DI policy....Focus on the definition they use. Remember, short and direct.

 

[ddavid1101]

You need disability insurance. Individual DI is far different than group DI. Your wife would be a tough case with mental health history already, but I would definitely look into it for both of you. What's the plan if one or both of you can't work and that $100-150k goes away?

Short story - group DI sucks, individual DI is much more comprehensive. With life insurance you are either dead or not dead, pretty simple. With DI, whether a claim is valid depends on the policy's terms and definitions. The group DI policy she had probably said something to the effect of "if you are able to work in any occupation...." that they would not consider her disabled instead of the preferred definition of "if you are unable to perform the material and substantial duties of your own occupation..." they would consider that to be disabled. Even long term group policies usually limit that own-occupation definition to 2 years max, while an individual policy can go to age 67 with that definition.

Yeah, I'll for sure look into it. Though I assume my wife's situation last year would impact her rate.
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have you asked why you're not a huge fan of it? As I said it is boring doesn't really ride market cycles. Usually those who compare it do so with a regular stock, usually with that 12% return... So how does it do? Pretty bad in comparision. Yet I really haven't a stock that consistently provides 12% year after year with the same risk profile. When you look at it, make sure your comparision is a fair one. Comparing it to a Pacific rim fund that might return 35% (and might lose 35%) isn't really a fair comparision. Why do I say this? All my money is not in WL, I am invested. Where do you think the nut shot came from? I wasn't being hypothetical at that momment. MY WL has basically replaced part of my bond portfolio. I still do the other stuff, but again it is nice to know that if my other stuff screws up, I have a dull boring consistent asset that does what it promises better than just about anything else. The thing about looking at it now is it never gets cheaper. Locking mine in during my late 20's sure feels good in my 50's. Especially when compared to what it would cost me now to buy it, along with my health changes.

As for DI, the words are everything and I mean everything. Your wife got screwed over because her condition didn't meet their definition of disability. Pretty much when it is all said and done there is only one sentence you're paying for with a DI policy and that is What is disability under this contract. That sentence should be short and sweet, longer means they are giving you their reasons not to pay the claim. That said, that one sentence will cost ya. Before you focus in on cost with a DI policy....Focus on the definition they use. Remember, short and direct.

I'll keep an open mind and look at the numbers. Just need to find the right agent and look at the numbers. Will have to look at DI too. Thanks for the info, reading a couple of blogs to educate myself.

 

[BNTRS]

She was in a highly stressful position working 60hr/w doing dividend forecasting etc. When she was at her state, she could not focus nor work at her normal. Doctors backed it up in reports and notes which was provided. STD denied it saying she is capable of working a "NORMAL" job. yes, at McDonald's or Walmart, sure. Not at a Financial company crunching and sourcing numbers from different countries in different languages with daily tight deadlines for the banks. STD or disability is easy enough to enroll and pay for but a total pain to claim, unless you are physically disabled.

This is the big difference between own-occupation definition of disability and any-occupation.

Any-occupation essential says that if you can work anywhere earning 60% of you're original salary, you are not eligible for benefits.

Own-occupation says when you can't do what you do (have done for the past 12 months), you are eligible for benefits.

As others have noted, it'll be tougher for your wife to be covered at this point. Maybe issued with an exclusion rider...maybe. Depression is a big concern for disability insurers.
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Oh and when it comes to whole life (not to be smug) if you're basing your impressions on it as worthy asset off numbers you saw from MetLife, that's sort of like test driving a Ford Fiesta and then declaring the Mustang a sissy car.