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- #11
HSA's
- Thread starter Golddoor
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- #13
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Golddoor - who is your GA or RSD for Assurant? Not bust intended but you should not be out there selling the plans if you don't know them. You need detailed training.
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Speaking of HSA's, I posted to the thread titled American National on the Agent Forum. I really should have posted it on this forum. Recently there were articles in the Wall Street Journal and The Philadelphia Inquirer that reflected negatively on HSA's, particularly Group HSA's. The WSJ article is available without fee by going to HealthDecisions.org website and clicking on the tab for "News." Then click to page for stories 61-80 and look for the article entitled New Premium When Employees Pay for Health Care, The Boss Pays Too.
There is no charge for viewing the WSJ article. The Inquirer article was along the same lines. Both deal with Group HSA's. Has anybody out there had any experience with them----the group HSA's that is. Also, I would like to hear opinions on Individual HSA's from you agents who have been writing them. From what I gather, there is a huge difference of opinion from agents regarding Individual HSA's. Apparently they are great for young, healthy prospects, but awful for anyone over 40 or with any health conditions whatsoever. I would like to see a discussion on this. Thanks. :roll:
There is no charge for viewing the WSJ article. The Inquirer article was along the same lines. Both deal with Group HSA's. Has anybody out there had any experience with them----the group HSA's that is. Also, I would like to hear opinions on Individual HSA's from you agents who have been writing them. From what I gather, there is a huge difference of opinion from agents regarding Individual HSA's. Apparently they are great for young, healthy prospects, but awful for anyone over 40 or with any health conditions whatsoever. I would like to see a discussion on this. Thanks. :roll:
Blanket statements don't wash.
Your health dictates which carrier you go to, regardless of the plan design. Depends on whether you want to pay extra to have your meds covered or keep the rate the same but have them ridered.
Cash flow & ability to budget make more of a difference in choosing an HSA vs a copay plan. If you cannot budget for the occasional (or never) major claim, go with a lower deductible copay plan and prepare to be hosed by the carrier.
If you can budget, go for the HSA.
In almost every situation the HSA will cost you less year in and year out, small claim or large, than a low deductible copay plan. As many times as I have run the numbers, I have never seen a copay plan beat out the HSA, regardless of age.
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- #17
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Let's do a HSA vs Copay plan for a family of four in my zip code - male 45, female 45 and two kids zip code 21128. I'll match the individual liability for apples to apples comparison.
Say the husband has HBP with drug cost of $85 per month
Wife has high cholesterol for $65 per month
Assurant Max Plan:
$2,500 deductible
$3,000 OOP 80/20
$35 copay
$15 generic/$25 name brand + 20% with $500 deductible
Individual OOP = $5,500
Family OOP = $11,000
Premium = $689
Assurant HSA
$5,400 deductible
100% coinsurance
No copays for doc visitis or drugs
Individual OOP = $5,400
Family OOP = $5,400
Premium = $431
Ok, the individual liability is the same but the family liabilty is cut in half for the HSA. Right there the HSA wins hands down.
The savings is $3,096 per year. For the HSA to be a bad deal they'd have to be use $3,000 worth of doctor visits and drugs.
First of all, they get all doctor visits at the network rate. Let's say it's $60 to see a doctor. On the copay plan it would have been $35 so the difference is $25. So the client is spending about $25 more on doctor visits. Saving $3,000 a year that's 120 doctor visits. Doubtful they're going to the doctor 120 times a year.
Drugs. Again, they'd have to be on $3,000 a year of medications. Ummmm, if they were they'd never get through underwriting so that's a non-issue.
So the HSA always wins. Always. Plus you get the tax savings on the HSA. AND for the finale - once you hit the OOP on the HSA everything is free - all drugs and doctor visits. No true on the PPO where you always have copays for doc visits and drugs.
Please realize articles are written by the liberal press and they want free healthcare for everyone.
Say the husband has HBP with drug cost of $85 per month
Wife has high cholesterol for $65 per month
Assurant Max Plan:
$2,500 deductible
$3,000 OOP 80/20
$35 copay
$15 generic/$25 name brand + 20% with $500 deductible
Individual OOP = $5,500
Family OOP = $11,000
Premium = $689
Assurant HSA
$5,400 deductible
100% coinsurance
No copays for doc visitis or drugs
Individual OOP = $5,400
Family OOP = $5,400
Premium = $431
Ok, the individual liability is the same but the family liabilty is cut in half for the HSA. Right there the HSA wins hands down.
The savings is $3,096 per year. For the HSA to be a bad deal they'd have to be use $3,000 worth of doctor visits and drugs.
First of all, they get all doctor visits at the network rate. Let's say it's $60 to see a doctor. On the copay plan it would have been $35 so the difference is $25. So the client is spending about $25 more on doctor visits. Saving $3,000 a year that's 120 doctor visits. Doubtful they're going to the doctor 120 times a year.
Drugs. Again, they'd have to be on $3,000 a year of medications. Ummmm, if they were they'd never get through underwriting so that's a non-issue.
So the HSA always wins. Always. Plus you get the tax savings on the HSA. AND for the finale - once you hit the OOP on the HSA everything is free - all drugs and doctor visits. No true on the PPO where you always have copays for doc visits and drugs.
Please realize articles are written by the liberal press and they want free healthcare for everyone.
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- #19
- 1,571
I place a lot of groups with HSA's and with HRA's and most of them are very happy. Usually, by shifting some of the burden to a deductible, as opposed to the premium, everyone is happy. However, some companies try to take advantage of the change (Which is their right) and save more money on the back of their employees, while pretending that it is the HSA's fault.
If a company has an HMO and they pay 75% of the single rate, even if you have a family, and they impliment a HDHP with most of the burden of the deductible on the employee, they are just shifting the cost from the premium to the deductible, but the same person is paying it.
I have seen cases where the employer pays 75% of the family rate, and then sponsors 75% of the single rate into the high deductible. When that happens, they are shifting some of their own premium burden to the employees, and then they get screwed.
Also, many carriers will have a dedicated line to get information on the various costs of healthcare.
If a company has an HMO and they pay 75% of the single rate, even if you have a family, and they impliment a HDHP with most of the burden of the deductible on the employee, they are just shifting the cost from the premium to the deductible, but the same person is paying it.
I have seen cases where the employer pays 75% of the family rate, and then sponsors 75% of the single rate into the high deductible. When that happens, they are shifting some of their own premium burden to the employees, and then they get screwed.
Also, many carriers will have a dedicated line to get information on the various costs of healthcare.
Not even then.
Doc visits cost $35 so 50 doc visits = $1750 additional out of pocket. In all fairness you have to offset this by the $70 or so paid out of pocket for the HSA.
Rx is covered after a $500 deductible so the first $500 per person is not reimbursed under either plan.
The HSA always wins. Copay always loses.
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