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Not for profit is for wimps. We're anti-profit. She has dedicated her life to spending it faster than I can make it. And darnit if she isn't good at her mission.
Info About Woodmen of the World Company ?
- Thread starter ABCman
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Not for profit is for wimps. We're anti-profit. She has dedicated her life to spending it faster than I can make it. And darnit if she isn't good at her mission.
sambrody24
Expert
- 45
Tew..I have been a republican since I was 10, I love profit, its why I went into sales. I honestly didnt think anyone would take the Pirate comment seriosly due to the fact that the comment had pirates in it, however my wife does say that Im the only one that thinks Im the funniest guy I know. Woodmen does have an internal DNC list, where I live however it has yet to remove a number from one of my lists (The town im in installed broad band internet 5 years ago im not sure if most people here are even aware of it) also its on a CD Rom, that makes me laugh everytime I look at. I joined woodmen because I think that reviving the fraternal side of what our originization is supposed to be doing for out memebers is in line with my general Non-Profit commnity action work. If its managed right I see the two blending togather nicely.
DNC list I dont have time at the moment to look it up and reference the whole thing (but I should put it up for general sight someowhere on the board) But the FTC and DNC rules only prohibit a non profit from selling a product or appointments setting for profit if its being done by a third party, Also not all Tax-Exempt entities are covered by this exception. Now on the state level they tend to be a bit stricter, state DNC rules for quite a few states prohibit sales or appointment setting by a Non-Profit exempt from the federal DNC list. New York However allows it all. Im sure people will ask me to prove it, I would suggest Typing in FTC DNC no call list and non profits in some type of order and the DNC.gov page with the correct link pops up.
DNC list I dont have time at the moment to look it up and reference the whole thing (but I should put it up for general sight someowhere on the board) But the FTC and DNC rules only prohibit a non profit from selling a product or appointments setting for profit if its being done by a third party, Also not all Tax-Exempt entities are covered by this exception. Now on the state level they tend to be a bit stricter, state DNC rules for quite a few states prohibit sales or appointment setting by a Non-Profit exempt from the federal DNC list. New York However allows it all. Im sure people will ask me to prove it, I would suggest Typing in FTC DNC no call list and non profits in some type of order and the DNC.gov page with the correct link pops up.
Brody... the problem here is how you use the "non-profit" label, and you seem to have your heels dug in on the issue. The Red Cross, March of Dimes, Muscular Dystrophy, Peace Corps and other charitable organizations... they are what people think of when you say "non-profit". To portray a fraternal life insurance company in the same light is exaggeration and misleading.
Call your WOW compliance department and ask them if it's ok to lead prospects into believing you're a non-profit in the same vein as the organizations I mentioned. Check with NAFIC (National Association of Fraternal Insurance Counselors) and get their position on it.
Anyway, best of luck to you.
sambrody24
Expert
- 45
In our opening presentation (which I do not use because it is a lame duck non inquisitive tool) Explains our not for profit lodge status. We do free or reduced priced camp for our members childres, and a host of other benfifts, we also have several lodges that are quite active in volenteering and fund raising capacities. I have never personaly sold anything using the non-Profit pitch, As a consumer im not sure why that would make me want to purchase life insurance or pass. The customer will by when his needs are met and the circumstances are correct + he likes the guy hes buying from 
. But the non profit status does mean the marketing rules apply different to me and the orginization I work for. Whether people think it is fair or not for me to be able to market that way.....Im not the judge.
. But the non profit status does mean the marketing rules apply different to me and the orginization I work for. Whether people think it is fair or not for me to be able to market that way.....Im not the judge.
- 16,877
In our opening presentation (which I do not use because it is a lame duck non inquisitive tool) Explains our not for profit lodge status. We do free or reduced priced camp for our members childres, and a host of other benfifts, we also have several lodges that are quite active in volenteering and fund raising capacities. I have never personaly sold anything using the non-Profit pitch, As a consumer im not sure why that would make me want to purchase life insurance or pass. The customer will by when his needs are met and the circumstances are correct + he likes the guy hes buying from
I recommend that you be careful how you go about it. Using your logic, every agent selling NorthWestern Mutual, New York Life, Physicians Mutual, Royal Neighbors, Foresters, Knights of Columbus, Ohio National, and dozens of other companies could ignore the DNC laws. They are all mutuals and not for profit.
It doesn't work that way.
sambrody24
Expert
- 45
This is the important question. Are the agents selling for these Non-Profs independent 1099 vendors who just have a contract to sell? or are they Employees of the organization?
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Also what state do they reside in, that is very important as well, the federal level is fairly loose compared to most state rules.
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Also what state do they reside in, that is very important as well, the federal level is fairly loose compared to most state rules.
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Yep, i know this is an old topic, but for anyone currently with WOW, when you first started, do you have to generate all of your leads or do you get any leads from the company and how much are they?
The amount of bad information and assumptions about WoodmenLife (or all the fraternals for that matter) on this thread is staggering.
Fraternal Benefit Societies are 501(c)(8) Not-For Profit entities. Here is the IRS link: (can't post link so Google IRS Code Fraternal Benefit Societies)
I find it interesting that most of these fraternals existed long before the IRS ever did.
I realize this is a really old thread by the way...
WoodmenLife does comply to the DNC lists.
Fraternals are specifically exempt from the state guarantee fund. This cuts both ways. While fraternals have an internal pressure valve for this called Maintenance of Reserve clause (an assessment on its members to maintain reserves) it is also exempt from an external assessment from the state guarantee fund to prop up or maintain other insurance companies that fail.
With all of this said, Fraternals are still regulated by state and federal government with regard to its financial stability and reserves. A fraternal is governed by its own members and members can choose to get involved in that side of things usually through their lodge or chapter system. At WoodmenLife members can become delegates to their state Jurisdictions and move up to National Representative for the National Convention where constitutional amendments are dealt with as well as election of the board of directors.
On the insurance side, Fraternals operate very much like all insurance companies - sales driven, ever changing products to remain competitive in the marketplace... good and bad management (its a people business). Overall, im partial to fraternals - I like the culture of it, the history of it, the people. At the end of the day I've got to make a living and I've been able to do that with WoodmenLIfe. I can't speak for all fraterals or even my own (officially that is), but I can say having been on the sales side for about 2 decades (I also worked for one of the big commercial companies for a bit) that I've never really lost any cases to "cheaper premiums" elsewhere. I rarely, almost never, get shopped around on - its about the relationship. WOodmenLife's premiums are competitive anyway - but there is always a cheaper mousetrap out there if you look hard enough. By the way, it isn't always about "low premium" - you have got to understand the contract and what you are buying. Some of WOodmen's products have some unique contractual features that make them very compelling compared to commercial company products. Premium is one dimension - you got to understand what you are getting in exchange. I chalk this up to the fact that our products are designed for our members by our members to there are some great advantages in these contracts for the member that you just don't see in other company products. These differences aren't always apparent and a novice sales rep may not appreciate or communicate those differences. The prospective member/client must also be educated and realize those distinctions... and in the end see the value in that.
With that said WoodmenLIfe does own a subsidiary insurance brokerage and we place business there if it is better for the member/client. Generally speaking we see if we can place the business with our parent company but if that isn't in the best interest of the client we are free to place it through the brokerage. There is something like 20-30 insurance companies in the brokerage lineup - mostly "best in class" based on company/product. An example of this was we highly rated a prospect (Table 8) for medical reasons... due to his age and amount of insurance we decided to run it through the brokerage. They found us coverage that had significantly lower premiums - the other company was willing to accept the risk in this type of medical condition where our company was not. So, we placed the case through the brokerage - the underwriting was shared with the other company so the member didn't need to go through that again.
We also have an investment broker/dealer with I think about 50 or so different investment companies. Most all the big names you are familiar with like American Funds, Fidelity, Blackrock, Franklin, Lincoln, Jackson, Met and so on.
Getting back to the whole state guarantee fund - I don't find this compelling enough based on the history of financial strength of most well run fraternals. Not to mention it is illegal for insurance agents to use the state guarantee fund in their sales presentations as part of the pitch. Consumers should do business with strong companies - I suggest A- rated or better (AM best). Also Asset to Liability ratios tell you something about the company.
Fraternal Benefit Societies are 501(c)(8) Not-For Profit entities. Here is the IRS link: (can't post link so Google IRS Code Fraternal Benefit Societies)
I find it interesting that most of these fraternals existed long before the IRS ever did.
I realize this is a really old thread by the way...
WoodmenLife does comply to the DNC lists.
Fraternals are specifically exempt from the state guarantee fund. This cuts both ways. While fraternals have an internal pressure valve for this called Maintenance of Reserve clause (an assessment on its members to maintain reserves) it is also exempt from an external assessment from the state guarantee fund to prop up or maintain other insurance companies that fail.
With all of this said, Fraternals are still regulated by state and federal government with regard to its financial stability and reserves. A fraternal is governed by its own members and members can choose to get involved in that side of things usually through their lodge or chapter system. At WoodmenLife members can become delegates to their state Jurisdictions and move up to National Representative for the National Convention where constitutional amendments are dealt with as well as election of the board of directors.
On the insurance side, Fraternals operate very much like all insurance companies - sales driven, ever changing products to remain competitive in the marketplace... good and bad management (its a people business). Overall, im partial to fraternals - I like the culture of it, the history of it, the people. At the end of the day I've got to make a living and I've been able to do that with WoodmenLIfe. I can't speak for all fraterals or even my own (officially that is), but I can say having been on the sales side for about 2 decades (I also worked for one of the big commercial companies for a bit) that I've never really lost any cases to "cheaper premiums" elsewhere. I rarely, almost never, get shopped around on - its about the relationship. WOodmenLife's premiums are competitive anyway - but there is always a cheaper mousetrap out there if you look hard enough. By the way, it isn't always about "low premium" - you have got to understand the contract and what you are buying. Some of WOodmen's products have some unique contractual features that make them very compelling compared to commercial company products. Premium is one dimension - you got to understand what you are getting in exchange. I chalk this up to the fact that our products are designed for our members by our members to there are some great advantages in these contracts for the member that you just don't see in other company products. These differences aren't always apparent and a novice sales rep may not appreciate or communicate those differences. The prospective member/client must also be educated and realize those distinctions... and in the end see the value in that.
With that said WoodmenLIfe does own a subsidiary insurance brokerage and we place business there if it is better for the member/client. Generally speaking we see if we can place the business with our parent company but if that isn't in the best interest of the client we are free to place it through the brokerage. There is something like 20-30 insurance companies in the brokerage lineup - mostly "best in class" based on company/product. An example of this was we highly rated a prospect (Table 8) for medical reasons... due to his age and amount of insurance we decided to run it through the brokerage. They found us coverage that had significantly lower premiums - the other company was willing to accept the risk in this type of medical condition where our company was not. So, we placed the case through the brokerage - the underwriting was shared with the other company so the member didn't need to go through that again.
We also have an investment broker/dealer with I think about 50 or so different investment companies. Most all the big names you are familiar with like American Funds, Fidelity, Blackrock, Franklin, Lincoln, Jackson, Met and so on.
Getting back to the whole state guarantee fund - I don't find this compelling enough based on the history of financial strength of most well run fraternals. Not to mention it is illegal for insurance agents to use the state guarantee fund in their sales presentations as part of the pitch. Consumers should do business with strong companies - I suggest A- rated or better (AM best). Also Asset to Liability ratios tell you something about the company.
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