IUL Submission Direct Vs. IMO

[scagnt83]

Midland is something of an anomaly in the fully underwritten life world. I am contracted with them and they are one of my favorite carriers. But an agent cant send all of their business to Midland. And Midland is much easier to work with than some other direct contracts out there. And everything you said is true when it comes to Midland vs. North American. My point was that you cant make the same comparison with Midland vs. others such as LFG.

But generally speaking, an agent is forced to use an IMO for most of the carriers in the life insurance world unless they are a huge producer. And even then they can often find higher comp through an IMO if they negotiate because of the IMOs buying power.

 

[ATM]

Midland is something of an anomaly in the fully underwritten life world. I am contracted with them and they are one of my favorite carriers. But an agent cant send all of their business to Midland. And Midland is much easier to work with than some other direct contracts out there. And everything you said is true when it comes to Midland vs. North American. My point was that you cant make the same comparison with Midland vs. others such as LFG.

But generally speaking, an agent is forced to use an IMO for most of the carriers in the life insurance world unless they are a huge producer. And even then they can often find higher comp through an IMO if they negotiate because of the IMOs buying power.

I thought the OP was about dealing direct v. sending through an IMO. Has something changed in the IMO world where I can deal direct with a carrier and not have to actually use the back office of the IMO?

If so why would a carrier even deal with the IMO at all?

 

[scagnt83]

I thought the OP was about dealing direct v. sending through an IMO. Has something changed in the IMO world where I can deal direct with a carrier and not have to actually use the back office of the IMO?

If so why would a carrier even deal with the IMO at all?

I deal directly with carriers all the time even though Im contracted with an IMO. Both LFG and NA are two that I have communicated with directly many times. I send the business to them directly too.

Not all carriers are like that but there are plenty out there. Unfortunately, many IMOs try to force agents to do everything through them. So a lot of people in the industry dont realize they can contact a lot of carriers about their case directly.

And carriers deal with IMOs because it is outsourcing a lot of work for the carrier. They are able to run a smaller internal sales desk, contracting dept, etc. It reduces the contact points with agents, but it does not eliminate them.



Why does Sammons have two separate carriers under them that sell almost the exact same products and utilize the same buildings and the same staff? (NA and Midland) Obviously they see some type of value in it.

The main difference is that Midland is direct contracting and NA is through an IMO. When I call Joe underwriter at Midland and he picks up, do you think Joe underwriter is not going to pick up the phone for me just because I sent the app through NA? An IMO might tell you he wont, but my experience has been that he will talk to me every single time. Especially since I always put myself and my email as the contact person on the app.


Like everything else in this industry. The answer just depends on the specific carrier that you are dealing with. But generally speaking, I have not had major issues dealing directly with carriers that I am contracted through IMOs. And there are some direct contracts out there that are a complete pain in the ass to deal with sometimes despite great products (Guardian is one that comes to mind). So in my experience it all just depends and there is no one single answer to the OPs question.

 

[ATM]

I deal directly with carriers all the time even though Im contracted with an IMO. Both LFG and NA are two that I have communicated with directly many times. I send the business to them directly too.

Not all carriers are like that but there are plenty out there. Unfortunately, many IMOs try to force agents to do everything through them. So a lot of people in the industry dont realize they can contact a lot of carriers about their case directly.

And carriers deal with IMOs because it is outsourcing a lot of work for the carrier. They are able to run a smaller internal sales desk, contracting dept, etc. It reduces the contact points with agents, but it does not eliminate them.



Why does Sammons have two separate carriers under them that sell almost the exact same products and utilize the same buildings and the same staff? (NA and Midland) Obviously they see some type of value in it.

The main difference is that Midland is direct contracting and NA is through an IMO. When I call Joe underwriter at Midland and he picks up, do you think Joe underwriter is not going to pick up the phone for me just because I sent the app through NA? An IMO might tell you he wont, but my experience has been that he will talk to me every single time. Especially since I always put myself and my email as the contact person on the app.


Like everything else in this industry. The answer just depends on the specific carrier that you are dealing with. But generally speaking, I have not had major issues dealing directly with carriers that I am contracted through IMOs. And there are some direct contracts out there that are a complete pain in the ass to deal with sometimes despite great products (Guardian is one that comes to mind). So in my experience it all just depends and there is no one single answer to the OPs question.

Joe underwriter at NA isn't supposed to take your call. I know Joe underwriter and I know all the execs at both companies. NA is designed to be brokerage and Midland is designed as PPGA.

If you are able to talk to an underwriter today at NA be glad because I would bet in the not too distant future that will end, unless you do large quantities of business. (500k plus). Perhaps you do already but the majority of the agents in the world do not. I've talked to the Pres of the company about this and he looked at me like I was crazy.

"Agents calling underwriters at NA? That's not supposed to happen."
NA isn't priced to handle that that type of service to individual agents. MNL is. If you produce between 50-750k per year then MNL probably has a much better contract as well. I know I can't get paid what I make with them through NA. The IMO doesn't have enough juice to make it work for them, unless they want to use my production to drive their payout. I've had that offer but why would I do that?

I would never write another piece of business with LFG so can't comment on how they do business any longer. I only know how they did it in the past.

 

[scagnt83]

Joe underwriter at NA isn't supposed to take your call. I know Joe underwriter and I know all the execs at both companies. NA is designed to be brokerage and Midland is designed as PPGA.

If you are able to talk to an underwriter today at NA be glad because I would bet in the not too distant future that will end, unless you do large quantities of business. (500k plus). Perhaps you do already but the majority of the agents in the world do not. I've talked to the Pres of the company about this and he looked at me like I was crazy.

"Agents calling underwriters at NA? That's not supposed to happen."
NA isn't priced to handle that that type of service to individual agents. MNL is. If you produce between 50-750k per year then MNL probably has a much better contract as well. I know I can't get paid what I make with them through NA. The IMO doesn't have enough juice to make it work for them, unless they want to use my production to drive their payout. I've had that offer but why would I do that?

I would never write another piece of business with LFG so can't comment on how they do business any longer. I only know how they did it in the past.

Ive dealt with both sides for the past 8 years. My experience has been consistent the whole time. I dont care who you know... Ive met with CEOs and VPs of carriers many times in the past. That still doesnt change my experience with NA and LFG over the past 8 years.


And NA/Midland aside. It still does not change the fact that the answer to the OPs question varies from carrier to carrier. It also does not change the fact that an independent agent who is making unbiased recommendations needs more than Midland under their belt (which I think we both can agree on)... and that will likely require the use of an IMO unless using one of the big mutuals...which all have their own unique quirks that can be a pain in the ass to deal with.

 

[CFP83]

Been awhile since I've been on this forum, however this little banter back and forth is something I had to chime in on.

As you know Scagnt83, my primary carrier is Midland....and based upon our many phone calls together both you and TahoeRay know how I feel about this whole topic. To put it lightly, I really detest the traditional IMO set-up. Such and inefficient waste of time and too many cooks in the kitchen dealing with one application.

ATM, your thoughts are much like mine, and your situation very much is like mine as well. I ended up the calendar year for 2015 in the top 75 with Midland, so send me a PM and I will buy you a beer in Orlando in April.

I have found however there is a variation of the IMO route that I really like, and that is working with a marketer to get you a contract-then just deal direct with the carrier. TahoeRay is my go-to guy for contracts for other carriers I need access to, and he is the perfect fit for me and what I am looking for.

Scagnt83 I think I am in line in saying that you are a "self admitted analytic" on the level of an engineer. I believe that 80-85% of my life business can go to one carrier, and I am still doing what is best for my clients. I find that only 10-15% of cases need to be shopped. To each his own.....if you want to spreadsheet every life case you can do that. However just like any huge life/investment/ria/401k producer, I don't believe you can operate a scalable practice working with 10+ different companies, as it requires you and your staff to learn a dozen different ways of doing business ect.

Good conversation here