Market/socialized Hybrid System to Replace Obamacare?

reformist

New Member
2
I want to run this by some people in the know because I've been thinking about health insurance reform for years and I would like feedback as to whether this idea is dumb or brilliant:

What if the government socialized health insurance for each person above, say, $10,000 spent? The first $10,000 will have to be covered by an insurance free market and/or employers, and for insurance companies to qualify for the state covering their insured above the $10,000 cutoff, they agree not to reject anyone seeking insurance based on pre-existing conditions.

The way I'm looking at it is this: single payer is too expensive for taxpayers because they are on the hook for every dollar of health insurance spent, and when there are no costs involved to the patient, there is nothing stopping them from overusing health care and clogging the system. It's like a buffet - if you don't raise the price or artificially limit portions, you eventually run out of food, have to cut quality or go bankrupt. Insurance deductibles are a healthy deterrent to out of control costs.

On the other hand, I'm a total free market guy usually but I recognize the incentives and realities in health care make a pure free market solution either utopian or dystopian depending on your means. As long as hospitals take all-comers in their emergency rooms, health care was always socialized even in a "free market".

Obamacare was a compromise in all the wrong ways - increasing costs for everyone and taxing those who can't afford insurance but don't qualify for subsidized plans. The moral hazards of risking losing benefits if you earn too much money (thus disincentivizing earning more money or incentivizing tax fraud/working off-book, etc.) is a lesson from the war on Poverty the Left continues to ignore, but compounding it by taxing those who can't afford the "market solution" makes this moral hazard worse.

So, my plan was to replace Obamacare with essentially very high deductible socialized health care (preventing the "overeating" costs to taxpayers, while covering serious illnesses and injuries that aren't necessarily annual for most people), and the cost of insurance covering the gap will be relatively low with insurance companies risk mitigated by the cutoff. Worst case scenario, you don't buy insurance and end up hospitalized, your personal costs are capped at $10,000 per 12-month period, a high cost but not necessarily automatic bankruptcy for most people like in a free market scenario.

$10k is just a number, it could be lower or higher -- but isn't this the right direction to essentially make the best of a lot of bad realities? I think the free market is good for keeping costs low and quality high, but I don't want people with pre-existing conditions or serious illnesses to go bankrupt or end up dying due to lack of coverage.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been thinking this through a long time and thought it sounds like a reasonable compromise. But maybe I'm missing something?
 
Most people complain about the current $5k deductibles and claim they "can't afford to go to the doctor". I doubt they will feel any different with a $10k deductible.
 
Me thinks you are confusing some things.

Talking strictly about the plan's direct costs, there are administrative costs and claims costs. Conceptually, it matters not what party owns the infrastructure to do the administration. Carriers will sell their ASO services for very little when calculated as a monthly charge per member.

Then there are claims costs. Those are total charges incurred for provider services. Plan design determines whether the claim charge is paid by the plan or the insured.

From a user point where you're paying the premium, a HDHP has been the lowest cost option any time I've run the numbers. This is true whether you have high or low claims.

I would like to see a program with no pre-ex or underwriting where everyone that is eligible has coverage. We want people that we are paying for to stay out of the ER because that is the most expensive part of the system. I'd also like everyone to pay something. I want everyone covered because unless we decide not to treat people that end up in the ER, those that can't/won't pay are essentially sucking off the system. Giving them coverage and taxing them is better than having them pass the ER costs onto us for free.

Unfortunately, this means that one possibility is people with more income have higher deductibles. This could be offset somewhat by allowing higher HSA contributions and expanding what can be paid for out of the HSA.

We'd still need a way to stop the continuous 10% trend. Also, there is no reason for our RX prices to be as high as they are. Drug companies charge more here than in other countries. I attribute this to paying for healthcare with insurance and the lack of competition caused by the politicians passing laws allowing excessively long patents.

HSAs make price an issue but don't cause price shopping because insureds are only responsible for the OOP. Procedure prices should drop when there are less write offs because all have coverage.

The next time of concern is at renewal this year. My 2017 renewal was $20,600. I avoided it but don't see any options that are acceptable under current law. The current regs that just passed will assure that no carriers write contracts that are anywhere reasonable. I'm not paying $30,000 for a $6,000 OOP. It's simply not going to happen.
 
Most people complain about the current $5k deductibles and claim they "can't afford to go to the doctor". I doubt they will feel any different with a $10k deductible.

I think you missed my solution - there would still be normal, market-based insurance to cover everything up to the $10,000 per person "cap", thus your actual "deductible" is based on what market plan you purchase to make up the gap - you can save money with a higher deductible or buy a Cadillac plan with no deductible. At worst, you don't buy or have insurance, your costs are still limited to $10,000 per person per year. But because the government is capping costs to insurance companies, insurance costs should be drastically reduced and much more affordable with their risk mitigated (although obviously taxes go up to pay for the socialized percentage too.)

Thus you have the market covering the percentage of healthcare which is often discretionary for many people, and the state covering severe cases like hospitalization and rare diseases which would cause one to exceed that threshold.
 
I want to run this by some people in the know because I've been thinking about health insurance reform for years and I would like feedback as to whether this idea is dumb or brilliant:

What if the government socialized health insurance for each person above, say, $10,000 spent? The first $10,000 will have to be covered by an insurance free market and/or employers, and for insurance companies to qualify for the state covering their insured above the $10,000 cutoff, they agree not to reject anyone seeking insurance based on pre-existing conditions.

The way I'm looking at it is this: single payer is too expensive for taxpayers because they are on the hook for every dollar of health insurance spent, and when there are no costs involved to the patient, there is nothing stopping them from overusing health care and clogging the system. It's like a buffet - if you don't raise the price or artificially limit portions, you eventually run out of food, have to cut quality or go bankrupt. Insurance deductibles are a healthy deterrent to out of control costs.

On the other hand, I'm a total free market guy usually but I recognize the incentives and realities in health care make a pure free market solution either utopian or dystopian depending on your means. As long as hospitals take all-comers in their emergency rooms, health care was always socialized even in a "free market".

Obamacare was a compromise in all the wrong ways - increasing costs for everyone and taxing those who can't afford insurance but don't qualify for subsidized plans. The moral hazards of risking losing benefits if you earn too much money (thus disincentivizing earning more money or incentivizing tax fraud/working off-book, etc.) is a lesson from the war on Poverty the Left continues to ignore, but compounding it by taxing those who can't afford the "market solution" makes this moral hazard worse.

So, my plan was to replace Obamacare with essentially very high deductible socialized health care (preventing the "overeating" costs to taxpayers, while covering serious illnesses and injuries that aren't necessarily annual for most people), and the cost of insurance covering the gap will be relatively low with insurance companies risk mitigated by the cutoff. Worst case scenario, you don't buy insurance and end up hospitalized, your personal costs are capped at $10,000 per 12-month period, a high cost but not necessarily automatic bankruptcy for most people like in a free market scenario.

$10k is just a number, it could be lower or higher -- but isn't this the right direction to essentially make the best of a lot of bad realities? I think the free market is good for keeping costs low and quality high, but I don't want people with pre-existing conditions or serious illnesses to go bankrupt or end up dying due to lack of coverage.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been thinking this through a long time and thought it sounds like a reasonable compromise. But maybe I'm missing something?

Why do you think single payer too expensive for tax payers?

The current system is much more expensive than single payer (and I'm not even in favor of single payer). Some estimates say we could save on total 20% by moving to a single payer system.
 
Most people complain about the current $5k deductibles and claim they "can't afford to go to the doctor". I doubt they will feel any different with a $10k deductible.

He said the first $10k would/could be covered by individual insurance. Its a deductible for the Single Payor Plan.

Essentially, he is saying have a Gov run Single Payor that starts after $10k in expenses. The first $10k can be covered by a Sup Policy or out of pocket or HSA.

A Gap Policy for $10k wouldnt cost all that much. Especially if it had a deductible or Co-Pay of some kind.

This idea has been thrown out there before. Im a big fan of something like this, especially if it provides free wellness care.
 
Last edited:
1st dollar benefits are the most expensive to insure. That's why a HDHP is so much lower premium than the same plan with copays.

It "shouldn't" matter single payer vs multiple payers but most assume that the single is the government.

Does Medicare inherently operate more efficiently than a carrier ? Probably not.

Having all enrolled in a HDHP would do away with adverse selection. You'd still have the lower incomes going to the ER. Less expensive to give them access via clinics perhaps with copay than expect those with no money to pay.
 
A dual track Hybrid, like a beefed up ahca would be great.

Not politically acceptable for many reasons. It has to crash 1st. This is more an attempt to save taxes for the higher income people than it is about fixing healthcare. Stay healthy.

I just got back from a 30mi bike ride. Made it the whole way with rubber side down (fortunately). I'd hate to bounce and find out what's not covered by the crappy STM I have. At least I made $700 on my premium. Another way to look at it is I spent previously taxed money and turned into taxable income by trading it for crappy coverage.
 
Back
Top