Mutual of Omaha Rate Increase Hits 10%

[somarco]

Never figured out why agents lie to get a sale.

OIC rates in GA will increase 9% in July. If you buy before the increase that just means you have a baked in increase for next year.

Plus anything else they do in between.

 

[maalox]

I find it a stretch you work in the supplement market or have any idea how it works. Your firm defense of Omaha is a solid indicator you're either an Omaha rep, Omaha agent, or just someone new who is ignorant to the market.

I have a love hate relationship with Omaha. One one hand they have a business model of screwing over seniors. On the other hand I have made more money replacing their business than every other company combined. I write in about 15 states, and I can think of only 1 where Mutual of Omaha doesn't intentionally flip their books




You know, I was kinda worried about this when it first happened in, but here's a little extra info. Aetna/ACI/ CLI w.e you wanna call them is my biggest carrier, I have clients with them in in many states. They haven't rolled any of their recent books, that I know of, except for GA. They have replaced some of their really old books that are like 7-10 years old. Since I started writing them 5 years ago, there's only been two rolls in any of my states and that's in GA and PA ( it was only PA's second book not third like GA). They are still very competitive in all the other states I write in with no rolls.

I kinda think it might be a GA thing. GA is pretty unique, I think its a combination of being an issue age state and claims. Even New Era/ Philly's has higher increases there than most of my other states.

Probably still too early to tell but I'm leaning towards and hoping they won't be flipping their books.

I just posted the actual rate increase for GA ...not the one's you THINK MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED but the actual increases.

The problem is you all have a preconceived notion of what the marketplace and rate increases for each carrier looks like, and that is rarely what the truth is.

This forum is populated by a very small % of the licensed agents and the an even smaller number of people post on this website, so the false information gets repeated it becomes just another great internet myth.

Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. If you think Mutual is the only carrier with multiple charters you need to play more attention.

Aetna, Medico, Cigna, just to name a few, how about re-insurance deals ever wonder who holds the paper on all those Amerilife private labels deals and what those rate increases are going to look like in 3-4 years.

Have you ever wondered if New Era's B+ rating matters, read your E&O polices, most will cover you for anything other than insolvency for a B rated carriers but some will not cover you at all.

There is no perfect carrier.

 

[goillini52]

I just posted the actual rate increase for GA ...not the one's you THINK MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED but the actual increases.

The problem is you all have a preconceived notion of what the marketplace and rate increases for each carrier looks like, and that is rarely what the truth is.

This forum is populated by a very small % of the licensed agents and the an even smaller number of people post on this website, so the false information gets repeated it becomes just another great internet myth.

Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. If you think Mutual is the only carrier with multiple charters you need to play more attention.

Aetna, Medico, Cigna, just to name a few, how about re-insurance deals ever wonder who holds the paper on all those Amerilife private labels deals and what those rate increases are going to look like in 3-4 years.

Have you ever wondered if New Era's B+ rating matters, read your E&O polices, most will cover you for anything other than insolvency for a B rated carriers but some will not cover you at all.

There is no perfect carrier.

I don't need to read about MOFO's shell game tactics...I see it 1st hand and have for years. MOFO is my favorite Med Supp company to run into.

 

[medsuptage]

Aetna has 4 carriers, including "big" Aetna they can use. As indicated above they currently offer AHL and Aetna in GA.

Aetna has been available in GA since at least 2010. AHL since 2015.

According to this the parent has swapped carriers in quite a few states.

And when they swapped they handed out some heavy increases on the legacy policyholders before introducing new rates.

In GA their new AHL rates were about 25% below last months rate with CLI.

Is this a pattern?

You decide.

So far their GA rates have been fairly consistent. Getting an app through the system (no underwriting) can be challenging. I have a few clients that insisted on Aetna during their open enrollment. Others have allowed me to place them with Aetna when they are in GI situations.

Haven't had any underwritten apps so can't say how they do there. They are one of the few carriers paying half commission on GI vs $25 one time with most carriers.

I believe they might have paid full comp on CLI GI business in GA and then later dropped to half.

Frankly I never understood why a few carriers would pay anything for GI business when most pay nothing. I figure that will come back on them at some point.

There are only so many dollars to work with in this business. If everyone is paying $25 one time and you are paying significantly more over 6 or 7 years that will skew your numbers in the wrong direction. You will write more "bad" business than your competitors (unless your name is Blue or UHC).

And if your regular comp is several points higher than your competition coupled with low rates that also erodes your loss ratio's.

There really is no magic in this business. It all comes down to numbers.

When you also reinsure competitor blocks you are in a position to manipulate your competition. Depending on the quota share arrangement the reinsuring carrier can dictate rates and underwriting.

The Medigap business is an interesting game. Watching carriers play with F and G rates, HH discounts and underwriting is fascinating strictly from a risk perspective.

These are all good points, your guess is as good as mine.

Every company rolls their books at some point. New Era has rolled their books in quite a few of my states and that's one of my favorite carriers. There's a big difference between New Era rolling their books and Omaha rolling their books though. Just comes down to the company.

My theory on GI is staying relevant. GI business, at least in my opinion, is not that horrible when you're getting the bulk of it, I don't think they make money on it, but when an agent or agency is choosing who to get comfortable with and put a lot of business with the one that pays at least half comp on G.I is a decent motivator. The reason I think this is because of AARP. In many states AARP is the only carrier to get paid on GI business and they keep their premiums somewhere in the middle price wise, they're usually not insanely priced.

I've worked with Aetna long enough to learn the tricks and hoops you have to jump through. Since Big Aetna bought them out they have become increasingly more difficult to work with. The nightmare contracting process is enough to detour any agent, I've re contracted with them 3 times so I'm very familiar. I've left my 6 month advance with them to this day still because their contracting department is just to much of a pain to deal with. For the last 2 years they've only got O.E/ GI business from me because their underwriting process is just too insane. I did tons of U/W business with them before the Aetna take over. After the takeover the phone interviews went to 20-30 minutes per person ( imagine a H/W) and lots of questions not on the app. So after the big Aetna take over, there are a lot of things I don't like about them and they only get a small fraction of the business from me that I used to give them.

Texas is my biggest state volume wise, with Aetna having the bulk of it. I have clients pushing 4 years with Aetna now who are paying less or the same than when they first signed up. While that's sort of good, I'm really hoping i have a reason to call them in the next few years and roll them .

 

[sman]

I just posted the actual rate increase for GA ...not the one's you THINK MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED but the actual increases. The problem is you all have a preconceived notion of what the marketplace and rate increases for each carrier looks like, and that is rarely what the truth is. This forum is populated by a very small % of the licensed agents and the an even smaller number of people post on this website, so the false information gets repeated it becomes just another great internet myth. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. If you think Mutual is the only carrier with multiple charters you need to play more attention. Aetna, Medico, Cigna, just to name a few, how about re-insurance deals ever wonder who holds the paper on all those Amerilife private labels deals and what those rate increases are going to look like in 3-4 years. Have you ever wondered if New Era's B+ rating matters, read your E&O polices, most will cover you for anything other than insolvency for a B rated carriers but some will not cover you at all. There is no perfect carrier.

And I posted an actual rate for an existing client. It doesn't jive with your listed rate increases. Regardless of what you post, it doesn't change the reality for my clients.

 

[somarco]

New Era discontinued New Era in some states and replaced with New Era Midwest. They did that in GA and didn't see any disruption.

Same for TN, replacing Phil Am with New Era Midwest.

Their overall business practice, new and renewal, is consistent with good block management. Not saying they are perfect, but as a former reinsurance agent/underwriter, I like what I see.

I have somewhat reluctantly taken on Equitable and more recently Bankers Fidelity, mostly as a defensive measure. I don't like all my business with one carrier. So far the Equitable pick up has worked well. Too early to see if BFLIC will follow.

Three carriers is all I really need.

You really can't compare UHC to any other carrier. They are so dominant nationally, but especially in certain states, they are the 800 pound gorilla that can do whatever they damnwell please.

I used to, and still do, from time to time send the U65 Medicare SSDI and GI biz to UHC. Let them soak up the bad business. The more the better.

Other than name recognition, they are not a factor in GA. No reason to use them for anything. That is different in other states.

I am very cautious about the Aetna group. Consider them almost in the same group as MOO. Not so much for other carriers like Medico, Cigna, etc that have multiple issuing carriers.

My block, such as it is, has done well with New Era for years and more recently Equitable. If BFLIC matches Equitable long run that is about all I need.

Maalox is blocked but I did see the BS he posted via Scott's quote. In my earlier post I included actual links to the MOO increases. I guess they lied about that too.

 

[Bevo]

New Era discontinued New Era in some states and replaced with New Era Midwest. They did that in GA and didn't see any disruption.

Same for TN, replacing Phil Am with New Era Midwest.

Their overall business practice, new and renewal, is consistent with good block management. Not saying they are perfect, but as a former reinsurance agent/underwriter, I like what I see.

I have somewhat reluctantly taken on Equitable and more recently Bankers Fidelity, mostly as a defensive measure. I don't like all my business with one carrier. So far the Equitable pick up has worked well. Too early to see if BFLIC will follow.

Three carriers is all I really need.

You really can't compare UHC to any other carrier. They are so dominant nationally, but especially in certain states, they are the 800 pound gorilla that can do whatever they damnwell please.

I used to, and still do, from time to time send the U65 Medicare SSDI and GI biz to UHC. Let them soak up the bad business. The more the better.

Other than name recognition, they are not a factor in GA. No reason to use them for anything. That is different in other states.

I am very cautious about the Aetna group. Consider them almost in the same group as MOO. Not so much for other carriers like Medico, Cigna, etc that have multiple issuing carriers.

My block, such as it is, has done well with New Era for years and more recently Equitable. If BFLIC matches Equitable long run that is about all I need.

Maalox is blocked but I did see the BS he posted via Scott's quote. In my earlier post I included actual links to the MOO increases. I guess they lied about that too.

Bob, we're about to go full steam UHC in NY and FL and some others. It's been a while for me selling them, but do they pay full on GI?

 

[somarco]

Can't say Bevo. In GA it is half or nothing. I am pretty sure they pay $0 on U65. Might pay half on GI .......... or $0

Scott (sman) used to get 3 or 4 UHC referrals from me each year but I believe he asked me to stop sending them. He will probably see this thread and comment.

Don't know about NY but I understand they dominate the FL and CA market.

 

[Bevo]

Can't say Bevo. In GA it is half or nothing. I am pretty sure they pay $0 on U65. Might pay half on GI .......... or $0

Scott (sman) used to get 3 or 4 UHC referrals from me each year but I believe he asked me to stop sending them. He will probably see this thread and comment.

Don't know about NY but I understand they dominate the FL and CA market.

Okay thanks Bob. I'll dig in and find out. They're hot in NY too so we'll see how this little experiment goes.

 

[sman]

Can't say Bevo. In GA it is half or nothing. I am pretty sure they pay $0 on U65. Might pay half on GI .......... or $0 Scott (sman) used to get 3 or 4 UHC referrals from me each year but I believe he asked me to stop sending them. He will probably see this thread and comment. Don't know about NY but I understand they dominate the FL and CA market.

It's been a while since I wrote a GI case with UHC, but I'm pretty sure they pay full commission on 65+ GI here in Georgia. On U65 Med Supp they pay nothing. With that said, their commissions are much lower than other carriers on average.

To piggy back on your post about New Era. They came to market in Georgia as New Era Life of the Midwest in June 2010 (they were here as New Era prior to that). They are still here as New Era Life of the Midwest. Both MoO and Aetna have rolled out a second carrier in the same time period. That says a lot about New Era's business model.