Negotiating with High Mileage

[buzzkillington]

Hello,

I appreciate the professionals on this forum and wanted some advise on a claim with progressive. My Porsche (2005 Boxster S) was flooded earlier this month and they have declared it a total loss. The vehicle is in good condition (this is also indicated on the vehicle valuation), included some aftermarket add-ons, and they have made me an offer.

One issue is in my area (MD) there are very few similar vehicles locally and the ones that are there have way less miles. My vehicle has 203,000 miles and the only others have 53,000 and 77,000 and are priced around 20K retail. The other 2 they found are in PA at around 18K retail with 60,000 miles. Others within 200 miles I have found are in this range. As expected I am taking a larger than expected hit on the mileage. They offered $11,900 as market value. MSRP when purchased was $53,100.

I am preparing documentation to request a higher payout, and wanted to know if anyone had any advice on how to pursue this argument since I have little to work with in regards to vehicles for sale and prices, let alone near my mileage. Like I said the vehicle was deemed in good condition and I have most of the maintenance records/receipts although much of the work I did myself.

Thanks for any help.

 

[FEX Quotes]

I believe $11,900 is more than a fair offer considering the mileage.

Go to Kelly's Blue Book (kbb.com) and price your car as if you were going to buy it retail and see what number they come up with.

BTW, original MSRP means nothing.

Also, unless they are claiming your vehicle was not maintained (unlikely), your maintenance records also do not mean anything as you are expected to properly maintain your vehicle.

 

[fed up]

Kelly has it at max 7800. Take the offer and go shopping

 

[buzzkillington]

Thanks for your replies.

Respectfully, I don't use KBB and Progressive said they don't either. KBB is owned by organizations that market and sell cars so it makes no sense to trust them when the entire system is to the benefit of the car market. NADA is similar but not so much. In the UK there aren't "Blue Books" or anything like that because people pay the going price in their market.

In the MD/DC/VA market prices are higher. Even NADA has the car at 13,575. MD insurance law states a car is worth what similar vehicles are going for in the area, and the closest are going for 20K with less miles. So, it comes down to how much someone would pay for the vehicle, which is subjective. It's a difficult question to answer.

As stated, I was looking for advice on what I could use in negotiations, or how I could structure my argument. I'm sure there have been other situations where people have ran into mileage adjustments like this. Also, going advice is to never accept the first offer, and this is their first offer. Most likely there is room to negotiate.

 

[adjusterjack]

Expand your search nationally. Just google 2005 Boxter S and see what comes up.

My first result has one with 99,447 miles and an accident reported. The price is $13,995. Another with 114,022 miles, also with an accident and it's $13,000. A 3d car with 93,652 miles and an accident is $14,995.

Note that it's all dealers at that link so figure the cars are over-priced by about 20%.

2005 Porsche Boxster S for Sale (with Photos) - CARFAX

You can continue reading the links on your own:

2005 Boxter s for sale at DuckDuckGo

If you and your insurance company can't come to an agreement you can invoke the Appraisal provision of your policy.

APPRAISAL
A. If we and you do not agree on the amount of
loss, either may demand an appraisal of the
loss. In this event, each party will select a
competent and impartial appraiser. The two
appraisers will select an umpire. The
appraisers will state separately the actual cash
value and the amount of loss. If they fail to
agree, they will submit their differences to the
umpire. A decision agreed to by any two will be
binding. Each party will:
1. Pay its chosen appraiser; and
2. Bear the expenses of the appraisal and
umpire equally.
B. We do not waive any of our rights under this
policy by agreeing to an appraisal.

Note that Appraisal will cost you some and you don't get any of that money back so you will have to decide whether any gain is worth the cost.

I don't know how old you are but I've been a car consumer and hobbyist for 50 years (and in the insurance industry for 35) and one thing I have learned is that EVERYBODY (including me) thinks their cars are worth more than they actually are.

Truth be told, you probably couldn't have sold your (pre-flood) 200,000 mile Boxter for more than $8000 or $9000 if that much. Few people would pay more than that when there are so many available with under 100,000 miles for only a few thousand more.

Sorry if that upsets you but it's a reality that you may soon have to accept.

 

[fed up]

Look up your vehicle on TruCar. Your vehicle has more than 2X the mileage on anything I saw in Maryland, regardless of the year. I doubt you will even get to 15K. But if you play hardball, your carrier might just dig in their heels

 

[FEX Quotes]

Car Gurus shows a 2005 Boxter S with 165k on the clock priced @ 11k and they say that is over priced..

Used Porsche Boxster For Sale - CarGurus

 

[Allen Trent]

KBB is owned by organizations that market and sell cars so it makes no sense to trust them when the entire system is to the benefit of the car market.

That would mean kbb has inflated values compared to what real sales are going for.

20 yr old car with 200k miles would likely sit for sale a long, long time at 12k or more. Most people would be scared off by the mileage & being 20 yrs old. Offer seems fair to me

 

[FEX Quotes]

... Most people would be scared off by the mileage & being 20 yrs old...

Not to mention a Porsche. Have you ever gone to a Porsche/Audi dealer for service?
I have... Better bring a tube of KY, it ain't pretty.

 

[buzzkillington]

Hey, thanks for the info. I'll check out those links you've posted. By the way the car is 11 years old, not 20 years old. And fortunately I've been able to do most of the work the car needs on my own and avoid the dealership. No accidents.

They got their pricing from the Mitchell's/JD Powers vehicle valuation report. Rated it 2.95 out of 3 in condition. It found a few comparable models (not in mileage) but then there are these deductions for mileage, with no explanation of how they came up with those numbers. They probably cant explain it either. I can do more research on those comps.

I'd rather avoid the public appraisal or lawyer route if possible. I guess my qualm is dealing with the difference in quality these reports work with. A Lexus with over 200,000 miles still goes for a high price (compared to other vehicles and its initial sale price), and I believe my vehicle offers the same strength of value. Even the most recent 2019 JD Powers evaluation rates Porsche 2nd in dependability behind Lexus.

Of course I might just believe its worth more than it actually is. But then if this is there initial offer then Progressive might believe so too. That being said I'm not looking for $15K, closer to $14K if possible and $13K at worst. The price of everything is higher in the DC area and it seems to come down to what someone would be willing to pay for it. The initial representative I spoke with couldn't do anything so a supervisor will be calling, but I'm just contemplating mailing them my argument and supporting information.