New Game: How Much is this Business Paying for Their Insurance?

Discussion in 'P&C Insurance Forum' started by Rick Deckard, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Rick Deckard
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    Rick Deckard Well-Known Member

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    Hey there Cheeky Monkeys, I like game shows and especially the older ones like Match Game and the like. I feel strongly for newbs like me, we are having a tough time wrapping our heads around some of this.

    I am going to describe the business, # of employees, etc...you in turn give us a typical range of where that business falls. I went out door knocking a bit and I think I need to aim higher so this is who I am targeting and you tell me what their premiums likely are.

    1. Green XYZ Inc, they specialize in painting interiors and of course are doing it all to code according to Global Warming Warnings...they have 3 vans or trucks on the road, say 10-15 employees total, they've been in business perhaps 3-5 years. What do you think they pay annually in Commercial Insurance?


    2. Joe the Plumber: He has a total of 2 vehicles including the one he drives around. He has a total of 5-6 employees and he has the business for about 8-10 years now.


    3. ABC Hurricane Impact Glass: We get a lot of this in Florida and South Florida, lots of companies that specialize in all kinds of stuff around the house. We have retrofitters down here to help folks tackle "toenails" which greatly impact their insurance premiums, etc...ABC has a total of 5 trucks on the road and a couple of trailers as well. They have a total of 25-35 employees and they are very well established in the area.


    It has been my experience to this point and doing my research, I know folks like Brown and Brown and Marsh are not calling back to most of these folks. If the premium is under $100,000 or won't generate $10,000 in revenue they don't even bother. So help me so I can help others, what are the approximate premiums for these types of businesses? It just cannot be "It depends" because I am giving you what I can see with my eyes prior to entering these companies on foot. I want to have an idea of what to expect so I don't embarrass myself.

    Please chime in if you have some real experience with these type of companies. Thank You!
     
  2. rbadoux
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    rbadoux Well-Known Member

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    Are all these risks in Florida?
     
  3. AZDave
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    AZDave Well-Known Member

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    Rates are going to vary by state, but if you have access to carriers that love contractors, and not just one or two, and you keep finding accounts like this to quote, you too will soon know the gl rate and work comp rate for the painter, the plumber and the glass guy. You will know an average commercial auto premium, and what fleet pricing is all about.

    I write contractors like this all day long. I know that the GL rate for the plumber will be the highest, then the painter, then the glass guy. I know the work comp rate for the painter will be the highest, then the glass guy then the plumber. For total premium, the glass account will be the highest. He should also get a better commercial auto rating due to fleet pricing. But the service work for this account may be the highest. Lots of small commercial jobs, and many being small property management jobs? = certificate work.

    Each of these accounts needs special attention to current gl forms being provided, any permanent equip on the trucks, inland marine and bpp needs. Remember, most of this premium is driven by payroll; you may be higher or lower than the current due to this.


    Word of advice:
    -one carrier for the auto and gl.
    -if your going to write contractors, you need access to carriers that love contractors, and not just one or two.
    -get a copy of their current.
    -come in after they received their renewal, and try to come in last.
    -its not about price.

    Good Selling!

    Dave
     
  4. adjusterjack
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    adjusterjack Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it CAN be "It depends." The information you are giving isn't even a fraction of the information needed to determine the appropriate premium for the risks.

    I think you already have. ;)

    I was in the P&C industry for 35 years. I was a commercial and personal lines underwriter, a rater, an agent and a claim rep.

    I not only have experience pricing the risks you describe but I also have experience pricing from Mom and Pop businesses all the way up to one of Arizona's largest public utilities.

    Even with that experience I would need a company's rate manual and a lot more information about the risks before I can tell you anything else but that each business will pay premiums between a dollar and a gazillion dollars. :laugh:
     
  5. Rick Deckard
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    Rick Deckard Well-Known Member

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    AZ Dave, thank you for the reply and information. You did a great job of showing your experience and I thought as I was reading that I might not learn much but then you shared some excellent information and the term I need to use is "Contractors" and I think I understand a lot of what you are posting. I also was speaking with an older P&C agent and he estimated a contractor with 2-3 vans/trucks is likely spending somewhere in the $15k-$20k range. I am basically all of South Florida but mostly Broward/Palm Beach, not a lot of Dade. And I have had some mild success up in Port St Lucie where folks are a little more old school and service seems to be very appreciated.

    I wrote a Scooter company and then they sent me their personal lines not long after. I enjoyed putting it all together, would like to write more of them.

    And to Jack...read your post chief. I care not to start forum wars but I do find your post full of mostly hot air and very little meat.

    Thanks Dave!
     
  6. VolAgent
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    VolAgent Well-Known Member

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    Great post Dave!

    It is nice when going in to have some idea of what you are looking at. Also, ranking them by likely premium on certain lines is good to know.
     
  7. adjusterjack
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    adjusterjack Well-Known Member

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    Until an insurance company gets the full story and charges $40,000 because all the drivers have DUIs and the building is a rat trap and employees routinely fall off ladders.

    Have it your way. You obviously know more about it than I do.:no::SLEEP:
     
  8. VolAgent
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    VolAgent Well-Known Member

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    You are really missing the point of the thread.

    As a newbie, you look at a business and wonder how much premium it represents. You're not really concerned with how much premium for THIS particular business, just a generality for businesses like it.

    He's not asking for someone to quote it and he's not walking in the business going, "Well gee, based on X, Y and Z, I bet you're paying $20,000 a year for your insurance, am I right?" He just wants to have a general idea of what he is walking into so he can know what to avoid because it is usually too small or too big.
     
  9. adjusterjack
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    adjusterjack Well-Known Member

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    If I missed the point it's because the point was well hidden. OP gave specific parameters and asked for premium estimates.

    I'm not interested in any "forum war" either so I'll just back away from this thread now and leave it to the rest of you.
     
  10. Rick Deckard
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    Rick Deckard Well-Known Member

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    Could not have said it better. I invited a couple Acct Execs from Commercial Carriers and I got some fairly solid answers to questions that were bothering me so...

    All Florida related...

    Country Club- WC $50,254
    Furniture Store- WC $148,429
    Bar/Tavern- GL and Liquor I hardly know her $6,857
    Child Day Care- WC $11,829
    Comm Lanscape- WC $16,221

    And I have a bunch more but in general this is what I was looking for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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