Opinions on William Penn for Final Expense

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I keep seeing their name up there as one of the lowest costs for fe. I am always trying to get my customers the lowest cost for coverage.

Does anyone have any direct experience with them? How is their underwriting and back office? Pay etc? Thanks in advance.
 
I keep seeing their name up there as one of the lowest costs for fe. I am always trying to get my customers the lowest cost for coverage.

Does anyone have any direct experience with them? How is their underwriting and back office? Pay etc? Thanks in advance.

I used to use William Penn or Banner Life for fully UW term. Rates were great, but UW turn times took forever and low commission.

I didn't know that they offered SIWL.
 
I did not know there is more than 1 William Penn. You learn something new every day. So how low is there commission on whole life and term? I mean even if low its better than no commission right?
 
I visited their home office if you want to call it that. They had an open house with free lunch one day. They were offering 60% contracts with no advance. They were also not what I would feel comfortable calling an insurance company. They were based out of an old building in a bad section of town and had one underwriter and a couple marketing people. To me it seemed they could go under at any time but I guess many fraternals probably have that feel to them.
 
If you were put off by a company with only a few employee then you wouldn't write 1/2 the fe co's out there. I bet 1/3 of the fe companies have less than 20 total employees. If I didn't know the Guarantee fund was backing these policys I wouldn't write many of the companys I do.
 
If you were put off by a company with only a few employee then you wouldn't write 1/2 the fe co's out there. I bet 1/3 of the fe companies have less than 20 total employees. If I didn't know the Guarantee fund was backing these policys I wouldn't write many of the companys I do.

You put a lot more faith on that guarantee fund than it's designed to handle.
 
Nah were talking mostly $5-$15k Policys. If the fund were not to pay I assure you it be more the Executive life type situation and not tarnish that trust with some small policy's. For a guy who distrust's the backing you push one of the smallest out there in Trinity. Heck they don't even have their own underwriters and I doubt they have there own customer service. Correct me if i'm wrong but I know of no life insurance death benefits that have not been paid. I know a few fraternals lowered the benefits paid.
 
If you were put off by a company with only a few employee then you wouldn't write 1/2 the fe co's out there. I bet 1/3 of the fe companies have less than 20 total employees. If I didn't know the Guarantee fund was backing these policys I wouldn't write many of the companys I do.

The guarantee funds have never been tested. Sure, they can handle some small potatoes stuff, but if there truly were a failure failure, and and the DOI couldn't find another company to take over the one that just failed, and the guarantee fund actually had to step in and pay claims . . . we would have a mess on our hands.

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Nah were talking mostly $5-$15k Policys. If the fund were not to pay I assure you it be more the Executive life type situation and not tarnish that trust with some small policy's. For a guy who distrust's the backing you push one of the smallest out there in Trinity. Heck they don't even have their own underwriters and I doubt they have there own customer service. Correct me if i'm wrong but I know of no life insurance death benefits that have not been paid. I know a few fraternals lowered the benefits paid.

That's correct. It has been almost a hundred years since someone lost a cash value or a life policy. What people have lost out on is interest earnings (after official failure date), and the common occurrence is for policies to go to their "guaranteed" performance after the company has been placed in receivership/rehabilitation. So, if you have a variable or universal life, which has a current cost of insurance/expense schedule and a guaranteed cost of insurance/expense schedule, it could get ugly fast. And since most rehabilitation processes restrict access to cash values, you could get hurt bad waiting for the process to work its way through, typically 4 to 6 years before you have full access to your policy values (absent dying to make a claim).

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I did not know there is more than 1 William Penn. You learn something new every day. So how low is there commission on whole life and term? I mean even if low its better than no commission right?

Specifically, the company name is "William Penn Association." It is a 130 year-old fraternal. The commissions are more old school, and you certainly won't be seeing a 125% contract floating around out there (not even the biggest baddest marketer on the planet has a contract like that). That said, I can do you better than the 60% suggested by another poster who talked about being offered when he went to an open house. [Private message me if you want more info.] And when I said old school, I meant just that. The primary reason they can have rates that cheap is that they do normal underwriting, not just a list of yes/no check boxes. They also use the status of being a fraternal to their advantage, and offer a discounted premium (which is technically not guaranteed); for those of you who are concerned over solvency issues -- if they start having problems with maintaining adequate surplus, they can simply raise the rates a little on everybody and life goes on; but don't worry, they have been doing it this way for several decades, and have never had to adjust anything, and even paid out small dividends on most policies. Their application asks if you have EVER had heart/cancer problems, so no "two-year and you are clear" going on here. They often ask for an APS, so no phone-interview approvals. They also ask a 5-year catch-all question, so don't think that a case of hepatitis will slip through because it wasn't directly asked about on the application. If there is a heart history of virtually any type, a decline will be coming your way. Same goes for most any cancer in the past 10 years. I do get policies issued; in fact, I've gotten all of them issued except the first one I tried (learned my lesson with that one). The company is a niche player when it comes to final expense, BUT they are damned good at what they are good at. I have sold people in their 70's who have never had any serious health problems some fantastic rates. I would never use them for sales to strangers three counties away -- too great a problem in measuring the prospect's (1) penchant for telling the whole truth when it comes to their health history, and/or (2) their willingness to wait 3 weeks for a decision. Keep in mind, this is a "lower premium, lower commission" company, and won't come close to generating the take-home commission you would expect from "higher premium, higher commission" company like United Home or 5-Star. William Penn is like walking trough a time warp; it has both positives and negatives. As long as you are content to use them where it fits, and not worry over it when it doesn't, you will like them. If you are looking for a company that will issue 90% of your final expense business, this is not your company.
 
The guarantee funds have never been tested. Sure, they can handle some small potatoes stuff, but if there truly were a failure failure, and and the DOI couldn't find another company to take over the one that just failed, and the guarantee fund actually had to step in and pay claims . . . we would have a mess on our hands.

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That's correct. It has been almost a hundred years since someone lost a cash value or a life policy. What people have lost out on is interest earnings (after official failure date), and the common occurrence is for policies to go to their "guaranteed" performance after the company has been placed in receivership/rehabilitation. So, if you have a variable or universal life, which has a current cost of insurance/expense schedule and a guaranteed cost of insurance/expense schedule, it could get ugly fast. And since most rehabilitation processes restrict access to cash values, you could get hurt bad waiting for the process to work its way through, typically 4 to 6 years before you have full access to your policy values (absent dying to make a claim).

----------



Specifically, the company name is "William Penn Association." It is a 130 year-old fraternal. The commissions are more old school, and you certainly won't be seeing a 125% contract floating around out there (not even the biggest baddest marketer on the planet has a contract like that). That said, I can do you better than the 60% suggested by another poster who talked about being offered when he went to an open house. [Private message me if you want more info.] And when I said old school, I meant just that. The primary reason they can have rates that cheap is that they do normal underwriting, not just a list of yes/no check boxes. They also use the status of being a fraternal to their advantage, and offer a discounted premium (which is technically not guaranteed); for those of you who are concerned over solvency issues -- if they start having problems with maintaining adequate surplus, they can simply raise the rates a little on everybody and life goes on; but don't worry, they have been doing it this way for several decades, and have never had to adjust anything, and even paid out small dividends on most policies. Their application asks if you have EVER had heart/cancer problems, so no "two-year and you are clear" going on here. They often ask for an APS, so no phone-interview approvals. They also ask a 5-year catch-all question, so don't think that a case of hepatitis will slip through because it wasn't directly asked about on the application. If there is a heart history of virtually any type, a decline will be coming your way. Same goes for most any cancer in the past 10 years. I do get policies issued; in fact, I've gotten all of them issued except the first one I tried (learned my lesson with that one). The company is a niche player when it comes to final expense, BUT they are damned good at what they are good at. I have sold people in their 70's who have never had any serious health problems some fantastic rates. I would never use them for sales to strangers three counties away -- too great a problem in measuring the prospect's (1) penchant for telling the whole truth when it comes to their health history, and/or (2) their willingness to wait 3 weeks for a decision. Keep in mind, this is a "lower premium, lower commission" company, and won't come close to generating the take-home commission you would expect from "higher premium, higher commission" company like United Home or 5-Star. William Penn is like walking trough a time warp; it has both positives and negatives. As long as you are content to use them where it fits, and not worry over it when it doesn't, you will like them. If you are looking for a company that will issue 90% of your final expense business, this is not your company.

That is a great and accurate explanation of them. We talked with them several years back and saw them exactly as you are describing. We figured that the fully underwritten WL products that are already in every FE agents hands make more sense.

Lafayette has over 100% commission on their fully underwritten and goes down to cases as small as $5,000. With a 97 Comdex rating very competitive premiums and a solid history of paying dividends. If an agent wants to add another company beyond his WL offerings from Trinity, KSKJ, or RNA I think Lafayette makes more sense.
 
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