P&C Agency Ownership -Great Life

[insurance1822]

I've been at this for 8 years since college. Started as a producer for a captive & now I own an IA. I make my own hours, I make more money then all of my peers & their spouses combined x2. My agency (and income) continues to grow & I just finished an acquisition that has springboarded my income into levels I never thought I'd reach at this point in my career.

I don't understand how more people don't pursue independent P&C agency ownership??? If it weren't for captives recruiting poor suckers ... This profession would totally be a secret. The only ones making it into the IA ownership group (today) are the 1% of captives who've pulled their head out of their butts & switched...or kids taking over parents shops.

I find myself surrounded by agency owners who are 58-65 years old with no perpetuation plans & shrinking agencies. The acquisition opportunities for us young guys are just insane. Separate from growth through inorganic acquisition, The average agency owner has no clue how to generate business, so when you network your @$$ off to fuel the new business machine ... you realize the competition is next to non existent.

Some young captive slaves know "what" networking means..but they cant maintain & grow relationships because they inevitably can't close a high enough % to keep the referral sources dazzled & committed. Yes you'll get some but the difference is astounding. Yet they have their captive drug dealers there to inject them with subsidized internet leads.

GUYS...if you're working Internet leads..I mean really..what the hell are you doing? You're no dif then my college buddy who says he wants to find a wife, but constantly goes to bars looking to hook up w the next girl.

As an Indy agency owner, this profession IMO surpasses every other career short of being a famous actor, F500 executive or male porn star. And the truth of the matter is its hard to switch careers into this for the obvious reasons. I'll submit that certain doctors can make significant income as well...but they WORK brutal hours. Due to the nature of the business it's like a fraternity that so few will ever understand.

The sad part is many of you young captives reading this won't realize how limited you are until you're too invested to switch. A successful captive will make "good money" but your skills & abilities would lend to so...so much more with the ability to competitively write every single thing that your quote. I have friends at captives that are better agents then me, but they can't switch over. Their moderate success as a captive has lead them to single income households with kids & they can't afford to start over. I have captives constantly sending me business that they have no market for. I literally feel guilty at this point taking their referrals because it's money that should be theirs. I have formed personal relationships with these local SF & Allstate guys and I'm constantly drilling them saying wtf are you doing? You sell insurance & you tell 9/10 people you can't sell them your insurance!!!!!!

I know some of you on this forum have large Erie books & you'll jump in & root for the successful illusionist company who claims to be IA. Lets be real...you started in a different era. An era of Erie, Allstate, State Farm & the IA down the street selling some mutual nobody knew about. I'm heavily networked with fellow agency owners in my market & there's not 1 scratch Erie guy making any respectable money.

So to my fellow true IA owners (as you're the only ones who will truly understand....) cheers to this fairy freakin tale job!

 

[nyc2phi]

Shhh. The less people know our secret the less competition is out there...

And you're also wrong, I know plenty of scratch erie agencies that are making plenty of money. In fact there was a point in time where Erie would only appoint scratch agencies, so no erie agent out there makes respectable money? I highly doubt that being that Erie has the highest retention rate out of any carrier in the industry, the second highest marketshare on auto in your very own state, and also pays out some of the highest bonuses in terms of percentage out of any carrier. You also keep forgetting we are IA, own our book, and can also get acquisitions like you. In reality the only difference between us and you is we have Erie and you don't..

Oh and we also only have one channel for customers to buy Erie products and that's through us agents. I can get a policy online from any of your carriers without you.

 

[sshafran]

I've been at this for 8 years since college. Started as a producer for a captive & now I own an IA. I make my own hours, I make more money then all of my peers & their spouses combined x2. My agency (and income) continues to grow & I just finished an acquisition that has springboarded my income into levels I never thought I'd reach at this point in my career. I don't understand how more people don't pursue independent P&C agency ownership??? If it weren't for captives recruiting poor suckers ... This profession would totally be a secret. The only ones making it into the IA ownership group (today) are the 1% of captives who've pulled their head out of their butts & switched...or kids taking over parents shops. I find myself surrounded by agency owners who are 58-65 years old with no perpetuation plans & shrinking agencies. The acquisition opportunities for us young guys are just insane. Separate from growth through inorganic acquisition, The average agency owner has no clue how to generate business, so when you network your @$$ off to fuel the new business machine ... you realize the competition is next to non existent. Some young captive slaves know "what" networking means..but they cant maintain & grow relationships because they inevitably can't close a high enough % to keep the referral sources dazzled & committed. Yes you'll get some but the difference is astounding. Yet they have their captive drug dealers there to inject them with subsidized internet leads. GUYS...if you're working Internet leads..I mean really..what the hell are you doing? You're no dif then my college buddy who says he wants to find a wife, but constantly goes to bars looking to hook up w the next girl. As an Indy agency owner, this profession IMO surpasses every other career short of being a famous actor, F500 executive or male porn star. And the truth of the matter is its hard to switch careers into this for the obvious reasons. I'll submit that certain doctors can make significant income as well...but they WORK brutal hours. Due to the nature of the business it's like a fraternity that so few will ever understand. The sad part is many of you young captives reading this won't realize how limited you are until you're too invested to switch. A successful captive will make "good money" but your skills & abilities would lend to so...so much more with the ability to competitively write every single thing that your quote. I have friends at captives that are better agents then me, but they can't switch over. Their moderate success as a captive has lead them to single income households with kids & they can't afford to start over. I have captives constantly sending me business that they have no market for. I literally feel guilty at this point taking their referrals because it's money that should be theirs. I have formed personal relationships with these local SF & Allstate guys and I'm constantly drilling them saying wtf are you doing? You sell insurance & you tell 9/10 people you can't sell them your insurance!!!!!! I know some of you on this forum have large Erie books & you'll jump in & root for the successful illusionist company who claims to be IA. Lets be real...you started in a different era. An era of Erie, Allstate, State Farm & the IA down the street selling some mutual nobody knew about. I'm heavily networked with fellow agency owners in my market & there's not 1 scratch Erie guy making any respectable money. So to my fellow true IA owners (as you're the only ones who will truly understand....) cheers to this fairy freakin tale job!

Dumb question from a senior market life/health guy:

I think a good senior life/health agent can build their book and earn $150-200k/yr. Especially if a good portion is Medicare. I know that's my goal, it'll take time but every new policy gets me closer.

Is that low - mid - or high for an Indy P&C IA? Just trying to get a feel for the type of income you are talking about...

Sent from my iPad using InsForums

 

[insurance1822]

Ugh that's tough to estimate because it's all based off the size of the book. I would think most Indy's are at least $1,000,000 putting their income w/ bonus in that 150-200k price range. We use service center's with all our carriers (aka somebody calls for service & it routes directly to the company) and that costs anywhere from 1-2 points of your renewal commission. On average we're giving up 1.5% to service our book. So do the math quick...you'll typically need 1 CSR for every $1,000,000 in premium & a CSR is going to cost you at least $30,000/year.

We can cut that cost in half & have experienced call center's handle those for us. No training, no staffing expenses, no turn over. So any agent who's not a complete & total loser should be $1,000,000 at the very least. If they're managing their book correctly, using call center's & writing policies every month they should be making 150k after expenses.

Ultimately I think 150-200k is somewhere between "average" & "above average."

----------

Shhh. The less people know our secret the less competition is out there...

And you're also wrong, I know plenty of scratch erie agencies that are making plenty of money. In fact there was a point in time where Erie would only appoint scratch agencies, so no erie agent out there makes respectable money? I highly doubt that being that Erie has the highest retention rate out of any carrier in the industry, the second highest marketshare on auto in your very own state, and also pays out some of the highest bonuses in terms of percentage out of any carrier. You also keep forgetting we are IA, own our book, and can also get acquisitions like you. In reality the only difference between us and you is we have Erie and you don't..

Oh and we also only have one channel for customers to buy Erie products and that's through us agents. I can get a policy online from any of your carriers without you.

Anybody shopping online is a client I don't want anyway. Erie's PL retention is dropping & will continue to drop as their old client base if dying off (literally.) I regularly golf w/ three 15-25+ year Erie agents all of which individually hold a premium volume that I truly wish you the best of luck in one day getting to. There has only been 1 scratch Erie agent in our market last more then 5 years & reason being he acquired another agent's office who was retiring. He DID NOT have the capital to purchase this book, however the agent was a long time friend of this guy's father so he allowed an annuity payment. Otherwise he would have sold to the BIG Erie agent's who have the capital.

Two of these guys do have outside appointments for commercial business Erie won't write (2 each) & they'll contend all day that unless you're a commercial agent who 100% targets business Erie wants....starting scratch with Erie is destined for failure just like any other captive.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[1manshow]

Agree that it's a great life...disagree about the Erie agent statement. Too broad of a statement...in Erie's home state, persistency is solid and way above the IA average. Agree that many of the handfed, who inherited their daddy's book are shrinking for lack of production/growth....while they sit patiently by their phones...waiting for them to ring.

I'm 70% Erie....with other major players in commercial lines. Seeing the same old cycle with Erie....business and growth was too good...pull back on credits...add premium to an already profitable renewal book...by next year will be begging agents for new biz and putting credits back on to salvage renewals...same old game. Nice time to have options.

 

[CaptiveGuy]

Ugh that's tough to estimate because it's all based off the size of the book. I would think most Indy's are at least $1,000,000 putting their income w/ bonus in that 150-200k price range. We use service center's with all our carriers (aka somebody calls for service & it routes directly to the company) and that costs anywhere from 1-2 points of your renewal commission. On average we're giving up 1.5% to service our book. So do the math quick...you'll typically need 1 CSR for every $1,000,000 in premium & a CSR is going to cost you at least $30,000/year.

We can cut that cost in half & have experienced call center's handle those for us. No training, no staffing expenses, no turn over. So any agent who's not a complete & total loser should be $1,000,000 at the very least. If they're managing their book correctly, using call center's & writing policies every month they should be making 150k after expenses.

Ultimately I think 150-200k is somewhere between "average" & "above average."

----------




Anybody shopping online is a client I don't want anyway. Erie's PL retention is dropping & will continue to drop as their old client base if dying off (literally.) I regularly golf w/ three 15-25+ year Erie agents all of which individually hold a premium volume that I truly wish you the best of luck in one day getting to. There has only been 1 scratch Erie agent in our market last more then 5 years & reason being he acquired another agent's office who was retiring. He DID NOT have the capital to purchase this book, however the agent was a long time friend of this guy's father so he allowed an annuity payment. Otherwise he would have sold to the BIG Erie agent's who have the capital.

Two of these guys do have outside appointments for commercial business Erie won't write (2 each) & they'll contend all day that unless you're a commercial agent who 100% targets business Erie wants....starting scratch with Erie is destined for failure just like any other captive.

I wish you the best of luck.

I'll agree that most of the long term Erie agents in my area aren't producing much, but that's why they are appointing younger agents. You do need other options and I have 2 other preferred carriers but Erie wins/earns 80% of the clients that come in.

In terms of income, I was making 6 figures at Liberty Mutual before going scratch with Erie. I'm going on my third year this summer and have already surpassed the highest year of income at LM after paying all overhead (office rent, csr, marketing etc.).

More captive agents would be better off indy but let them be satisfied over there ha we don't need more competition.

 

[truthclimb]

I've been at this for 8 years since college. Started as a producer for a captive & now I own an IA. I make my own hours, I make more money then all of my peers & their spouses combined x2. My agency (and income) continues to grow & I just finished an acquisition that has springboarded my income into levels I never thought I'd reach at this point in my career.

I don't understand how more people don't pursue independent P&C agency ownership??? If it weren't for captives recruiting poor suckers ... This profession would totally be a secret. The only ones making it into the IA ownership group (today) are the 1% of captives who've pulled their head out of their butts & switched...or kids taking over parents shops.

I find myself surrounded by agency owners who are 58-65 years old with no perpetuation plans & shrinking agencies. The acquisition opportunities for us young guys are just insane. Separate from growth through inorganic acquisition, The average agency owner has no clue how to generate business, so when you network your @$$ off to fuel the new business machine ... you realize the competition is next to non existent.

Some young captive slaves know "what" networking means..but they cant maintain & grow relationships because they inevitably can't close a high enough % to keep the referral sources dazzled & committed. Yes you'll get some but the difference is astounding. Yet they have their captive drug dealers there to inject them with subsidized internet leads.

GUYS...if you're working Internet leads..I mean really..what the hell are you doing? You're no dif then my college buddy who says he wants to find a wife, but constantly goes to bars looking to hook up w the next girl.

As an Indy agency owner, this profession IMO surpasses every other career short of being a famous actor, F500 executive or male porn star. And the truth of the matter is its hard to switch careers into this for the obvious reasons. I'll submit that certain doctors can make significant income as well...but they WORK brutal hours. Due to the nature of the business it's like a fraternity that so few will ever understand.

The sad part is many of you young captives reading this won't realize how limited you are until you're too invested to switch. A successful captive will make "good money" but your skills & abilities would lend to so...so much more with the ability to competitively write every single thing that your quote. I have friends at captives that are better agents then me, but they can't switch over. Their moderate success as a captive has lead them to single income households with kids & they can't afford to start over. I have captives constantly sending me business that they have no market for. I literally feel guilty at this point taking their referrals because it's money that should be theirs. I have formed personal relationships with these local SF & Allstate guys and I'm constantly drilling them saying wtf are you doing? You sell insurance & you tell 9/10 people you can't sell them your insurance!!!!!!

I know some of you on this forum have large Erie books & you'll jump in & root for the successful illusionist company who claims to be IA. Lets be real...you started in a different era. An era of Erie, Allstate, State Farm & the IA down the street selling some mutual nobody knew about. I'm heavily networked with fellow agency owners in my market & there's not 1 scratch Erie guy making any respectable money.

So to my fellow true IA owners (as you're the only ones who will truly understand....) cheers to this fairy freakin tale job!

This is some great insight. I'm looking to hopefully follow the same path. I've been working for a captive for two years since graduating from college (I'm 25), and would like to start an independent in the future. Could you provide a little more detail on how the 8 years went for you? Did you go straight from working for a captive to owning an IA? Did you start the IA by yourself out of your house or purchase an office? Thanks in advance and congratulations on your success.

 

[F150]

I dont have erie in my state, maybe I should move.......

 

[1manshow]

Let me know if you need a place to stay

 

[Arnage150]

You said you now own a IA. I'm curious did you buy it, take it over or build it from scratch?

I've been at this for 8 years since college. Started as a producer for a captive & now I own an IA. I make my own hours, I make more money then all of my peers & their spouses combined x2. My agency (and income) continues to grow & I just finished an acquisition that has springboarded my income into levels I never thought I'd reach at this point in my career.

I don't understand how more people don't pursue independent P&C agency ownership??? If it weren't for captives recruiting poor suckers ... This profession would totally be a secret. The only ones making it into the IA ownership group (today) are the 1% of captives who've pulled their head out of their butts & switched...or kids taking over parents shops.

I find myself surrounded by agency owners who are 58-65 years old with no perpetuation plans & shrinking agencies. The acquisition opportunities for us young guys are just insane. Separate from growth through inorganic acquisition, The average agency owner has no clue how to generate business, so when you network your @$$ off to fuel the new business machine ... you realize the competition is next to non existent.

Some young captive slaves know "what" networking means..but they cant maintain & grow relationships because they inevitably can't close a high enough % to keep the referral sources dazzled & committed. Yes you'll get some but the difference is astounding. Yet they have their captive drug dealers there to inject them with subsidized internet leads.

GUYS...if you're working Internet leads..I mean really..what the hell are you doing? You're no dif then my college buddy who says he wants to find a wife, but constantly goes to bars looking to hook up w the next girl.

As an Indy agency owner, this profession IMO surpasses every other career short of being a famous actor, F500 executive or male porn star. And the truth of the matter is its hard to switch careers into this for the obvious reasons. I'll submit that certain doctors can make significant income as well...but they WORK brutal hours. Due to the nature of the business it's like a fraternity that so few will ever understand.

The sad part is many of you young captives reading this won't realize how limited you are until you're too invested to switch. A successful captive will make "good money" but your skills & abilities would lend to so...so much more with the ability to competitively write every single thing that your quote. I have friends at captives that are better agents then me, but they can't switch over. Their moderate success as a captive has lead them to single income households with kids & they can't afford to start over. I have captives constantly sending me business that they have no market for. I literally feel guilty at this point taking their referrals because it's money that should be theirs. I have formed personal relationships with these local SF & Allstate guys and I'm constantly drilling them saying wtf are you doing? You sell insurance & you tell 9/10 people you can't sell them your insurance!!!!!!

I know some of you on this forum have large Erie books & you'll jump in & root for the successful illusionist company who claims to be IA. Lets be real...you started in a different era. An era of Erie, Allstate, State Farm & the IA down the street selling some mutual nobody knew about. I'm heavily networked with fellow agency owners in my market & there's not 1 scratch Erie guy making any respectable money.

So to my fellow true IA owners (as you're the only ones who will truly understand....) cheers to this fairy freakin tale job!