Participating Whole Life

[liorselamb]

My experience with life insurance is the senior market (SI Final Expense). I'm looking for advise on PAR WL.

Which carrier offers the highest dividends (current and historically)? Which carrier will help grow CV quicker than others? In other words, if you want to write it on yourself, your spouse or your kids, which carrier would you use?

Thanks in advance,

 

[LGilmore]

When I was with NYL, I bought NYL. If I were to buy again as an independent, I would use Guardian. Why? Guardian allows independents to write for them. I would caution you on this "best this and most consistent that" because you're implying a guarantee that may or may not be possible. dividends are not guaranteed, so spending a lot of time talking about that could be a big mistake. You are better off talking about the quality of that group of companies and their WL plans that all work very good. You just happen to write for this one you're talking about. Would a person be in bad shape if they chose one over another from this grouping? No.




There isn't a hands down best, there are several excellent choices out there and that's the way it should be because Every company underwrites differently, so telling anybody one company is best doesn't work if that company doesn't price that age, gender and face amount in question the most competitively. .






.

 

[liorselamb]

When I was with NYL, I bought NYL. If I were to buy again as an independent, I would use Guardian. Why? Guardian allows independents to write for them. I would caution you on this "best this and most consistent that" because you're implying a guarantee that may or may not be possible. dividends are not guaranteed, so spending a lot of time talking about that could be a big mistake. You are better off talking about the quality of that group of companies and their WL plans that all work very good. You just happen to write for this one you're talking about. Would a person be in bad shape if they chose one over another from this grouping? No. There isn't a hands down best, there are several excellent choices out there and that's the way it should be because Every company underwrites differently, so telling anybody one company is best doesn't work if that company doesn't price that age, gender and face amount in question the most competitively. . .

Thx for the info. For cash accumulation purpose, is it better for an individual to insure themselves (assuming healthy- mid 30's) , or is it better to insure a kid (for lower cost) and be the owner?

I've heard great things about Assurity. Do you have any experience with them?

 

[Tahoe Ray]

My experience with life insurance is the senior market (SI Final Expense). I'm looking for advise on PAR WL.

Which carrier offers the highest dividends (current and historically)? Which carrier will help grow CV quicker than others? In other words, if you want to write it on yourself, your spouse or your kids, which carrier would you use?

Thanks in advance,

Mass mutual to max CV. Most of the major players are solid but Mass is pretty tough to beat if that's your primary objective.

You can broker for them as well.

 

[liorselamb]

Mass mutual to max CV. Most of the major players are solid but Mass is pretty tough to beat if that's your primary objective. You can broker for them as well.

Do they contract directly with agents or IMO?

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Do they contract directly with agents or IMO?

Both. You can contact your local office or go through a MM regional brokerage director. There are also IMOs that might be able to get you more comp on a one off...

 

[TwiLight]

Which carrier offers the highest dividends (current and historically)? Which carrier will help grow CV quicker than others? In other words, if you want to write it on yourself, your spouse or your kids, which carrier would you use?

This is a loaded question, and is really an unfair comparison to judge one company to another.

All Par/Dividend paying policies are basically returning overpaid premiums and that is why they are not taxed to the policyholder.

When you have an overpriced plan like NYL, MASS, etc. you will have a higher dividend and higher % return. Compare that to a lower priced plan like one from National Life Group or a Fraternal like RNA, the dividends are lower but there is usually a significant difference in the premium to justify the lower dividend.

Since you are not overpaying and padding the balance sheet of the overpriced plans, than the returns are lower.

You would do best in looking at the Cost indexes provided in the illustrations for a fair comparison of overall costs vs rates of return.

Here is an example of what I am speaking of:

$100k Life paid to 100, Male NS age 45, preferred risk.

Mutual A: $1,965 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $351, 10th Yr=$539, 20th Yr=$1,136.

Mutual B: $1,687 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $75, 10th Yr=$206, 20th Yr=$519.

Which is the better Product????? One Product is 15% higher in cost than the other, does that mean I get a 15% annual return based on the savings from the difference?

My point is that there is no answer to your question that cannot be countered with a fact that you may be overpaying and ultimately getting a lesser return from one WL product to another WL product.

Personally I am an IUL guy that likes getting the biggest bang for the buck in the first year and does not like waiting for my future promises to get the over paid premiums back. JMHO.

 

[liorselamb]

This is a loaded question, and is really an unfair comparison to judge one company to another. All Par/Dividend paying policies are basically returning overpaid premiums and that is why they are not taxed to the policyholder. When you have an overpriced plan like NYL, MASS, etc. you will have a higher dividend and higher % return. Compare that to a lower priced plan like one from National Life Group or a Fraternal like RNA, the dividends are lower but there is usually a significant difference in the premium to justify the lower dividend. Since you are not overpaying and padding the balance sheet of the overpriced plans, than the returns are lower. You would do best in looking at the Cost indexes provided in the illustrations for a fair comparison of overall costs vs rates of return. Here is an example of what I am speaking of: $100k Life paid to 100, Male NS age 45, preferred risk. Mutual A: $1,965 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $351, 10th Yr=$539, 20th Yr=$1,136. Mutual B: $1,687 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $75, 10th Yr=$206, 20th Yr=$519. Which is the better Product????? One Product is 15% higher in cost than the other, does that mean I get a 15% annual return based on the savings from the difference? My point is that there is no answer to your question that cannot be countered with a fact that you may be overpaying and ultimately getting a lesser return from one WL product to another WL product. Personally I am an IUL guy that likes getting the biggest bang for the buck in the first year and does not like waiting for my future promises to get the over paid premiums back. JMHO.

Based on the example you provided, if the goal is CV accumulation, it's ok to pay more and get a higher return (in %), right?

Thank you for taking the time to be specific much appreciated.

----------

Both. You can contact your local office or go through a MM regional brokerage director. There are also IMOs that might be able to get you more comp on a one off...

Thank you. I'll look into it

 

[Tahoe Ray]

This is a loaded question, and is really an unfair comparison to judge one company to another.

All Par/Dividend paying policies are basically returning overpaid premiums and that is why they are not taxed to the policyholder.

When you have an overpriced plan like NYL, MASS, etc. you will have a higher dividend and higher % return. Compare that to a lower priced plan like one from National Life Group or a Fraternal like RNA, the dividends are lower but there is usually a significant difference in the premium to justify the lower dividend.

Since you are not overpaying and padding the balance sheet of the overpriced plans, than the returns are lower.

You would do best in looking at the Cost indexes provided in the illustrations for a fair comparison of overall costs vs rates of return.

Here is an example of what I am speaking of:

$100k Life paid to 100, Male NS age 45, preferred risk.

Mutual A: $1,965 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $351, 10th Yr=$539, 20th Yr=$1,136.

Mutual B: $1,687 Annual Premium - 5th Year Dividend = $75, 10th Yr=$206, 20th Yr=$519.

Which is the better Product????? One Product is 15% higher in cost than the other, does that mean I get a 15% annual return based on the savings from the difference?

My point is that there is no answer to your question that cannot be countered with a fact that you may be overpaying and ultimately getting a lesser return from one WL product to another WL product.

Personally I am an IUL guy that likes getting the biggest bang for the buck in the first year and does not like waiting for my future promises to get the over paid premiums back. JMHO.

You can just use the IRR page to compare varying premiums.

 

[liorselamb]

You can just use the IRR page to compare varying premiums.

What is the IRR page?