Pre-existing Damage Car Bought

[FloridaBorn]

Hello, I purchased a brand new fiat that had some hail damage on the hood. The dealership gave me a discount for the thirteen pings on it, but its white so hard to see. My neighbor was getting a roof done today and the workers backed their trailer into it while I was out of town. I returned today and was told by my neighbor and the hood is now lifted and crinkled, lights smashed, bumper cracked...etc

I researched and found that dealerships receive money from the insurance and thats how they were able to give me a discount (didn't know that). So am I now up the creek if I file a claim since the hood was bought at some point in time from some insurance company. I decided to buy a carfax to see if it was reported and it says 100% guaranteed to not have hail or any issues.

Will my insurance company know about it if I file a claim? Especially if carfax didn't even know about it. Also, is this insurance freud (seems like it would be)?

 

[Josh]

There are always some missing parts of the discussion, but this might answer the question:

If your car had some damage, but the area received new damage, the insurance should cover it. Sounds like the roofers are liable and their insurance or they should cover it. If it had existing damage but was really no worse off than it was originally, no claim. For example, old pickup truck with 1,000 scratches on it gets another small scratch, probably not going to be covered. In your situation it sounds like there was minor damage, but the latest attack sounds like it was much more substantial. Even if the roofers don't cover it, the loss itself should be covered because it is new damage, regardless of what minor damage may have existed before.

Does that help?

 

[FullAuto]

This will vary widely by the company. At my company, for an insured, we treat hail differently than typical "prior damage". For an insured, we'd simpy make note of it then ignore it as far as deducting money from the claim goes. We'd only pay the necessary amount to repair the collision damage. The insured would be responsible for paying the shop the extra amount to repair the hail damage. It should just be the labor though as we'd pay for painting the hood based off the collision.

Some companies will not treat hail this way. They may just classify it as regular prior damage. Typically, prior damage is handled where if the prior damage requires to part to be replaced, then the new damage would be canceled out by the prior. For us, if it was a claimant, it would net $0. If it was an insured, we do not deduct paint time on the prior damage estimate, only the labor. So you'd net paint labor and paint & materials cost only. Again, some companies won't treat a claimant and insured differently though.

If the prior damage was repairable, then the new damage estimate would be to repair or replace BOTH the new and old damage. Then a prior damage estimate would be written for only the old that would deduct from the first estimate.

So if the new damage needs 4 hours repair + paint, and the old needs 3 hours repair + paint, we'd write 7 hours repair + paint MINUS 3 hours + paint. A claimant would net 4 hours only without paint. An insured would net 4 hours + paint since we don't deduct it on the prior damage estimate.

It's not fraud. It's the adjusters job to notice the hail damage on the panel. If he/she doesn't, that's not your problem.

 

[xrac]

The roofers auto insurance should be on the hook for this repair. The only way your company should be involved is if the roofer or their insurance doesn't man up and accept responsibility. In that case you could file a claim with your company and they would then subrogate a claim against the roofer or their insurer. In this situation I wouldn't worry about the hail damage or mention it. I would let the process take care of itself. In any case it should have no impact upon your own coverage or premiums.

 

[FloridaBorn]

WOW, a lot of good information going on! Thank you for taking the time and writing such detailed informative answers. I contacted the roofers and left a message to get the insurance information. Apparently, they are not a real company just some mexicanos in a truck. So we shall see how that plays out..

Will the insurance see a claim for the hail damage on my new car that happened before I bought it? I'm getting conflicting statements from friends. Car dealers file a hail claim on a new vehicle and get money for the hail damage. They sell it to you damaged for a discount and the claim is attached to the VIN C.L.U.E report. But it didn't show up on carfax. Am I hearing this part correct?

 

[Josh]

I don't think the roofers car insurance would cover it, the insurance that would cover it would be the liability.

 

[xrac]

I don't think the roofers car insurance would cover it, the insurance that would cover it would be the liability.

You may be correct I missed the part that said trailer. I was thinking thw truck backed into them. I am not a P&C guy. What is the situation as far as coverage when you are towing a trailer and the trailer hits something?
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WOW, a lot of good information going on! Thank you for taking the time and writing such detailed informative answers. I contacted the roofers and left a message to get the insurance information. Apparently, they are not a real company just some mexicanos in a truck. So we shall see how that plays out..

Will the insurance see a claim for the hail damage on my new car that happened before I bought it? I'm getting conflicting statements from friends. Car dealers file a hail claim on a new vehicle and get money for the hail damage. They sell it to you damaged for a discount and the claim is attached to the VIN C.L.U.E report. But it didn't show up on carfax. Am I hearing this part correct?

File the claim and see what plays out. This claim should be covered under comprehensive coverage if you can't get anything out of the Mexicans. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Josh]

You may be correct I missed the part that said trailer. I was think truck backed into them. I am not a P&C guy. What is the situation as far as coverage when you are towing a trailer and the trailer hits something?.

No, my bad, I misunderstood, if the trailer backed into it then that's definitely the roofers insurance. You were 100% right.

 

[djs]

To answer your question, it is unlikely the dealer filed a claim on the car AND if it isn't in Carfax, it is unlikely anyone would know about it.

It is fraud for you to claim the hail damage, since it wasn't done when you owned the car, but you don't have to mention it.

Dan

 

[FloridaBorn]

I was always told that dealerships make a ton during a hail storm. They first file a claim and make money off the insurance. Lets say they got 7,000 and you got 4,000 off through negotiating. They pocket 3,000 and the profit from selling the car. So your saying this is untrue, they are just giving you a discount because they would have to fix it to sell as new. I just don't want to file a claim and they say "hey under the C.L.U.E. report for this vehicle it shows you bought this damaged and now your committing freud. Sorry, I do want to do the right thing but I also don't want to be blackballed.

Thank you for all the help so far. As far as the roofers, they have not replied. My neighbor (***) never asked for ID, insurance, or took their license number. He already paid them so I'm imagining I'm going to have a hard time getting ahold of them.