Should I Speak Up and Say Something?

[asu47]

So at my company any joint work is automatically 50/50 split unless otherwise stated and approved by the sales manager.

I am working on my dad's policy to carve him out an executive bonus plan for his company via whole life.

Were talking a $15,000 commission check. Since I'm new, I get 91% on top of whatever cut I get.

The guy helping me out on this has some time into this, but no more then 4 hours at best. In my contract it says its automatically split 50/50 unless otherwise agreed upon and approved by sales manager.... Im a little annoyed because this is my family member who wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't the agent. The guy helping me never mentioned a split until after he drew everything up, I assumed he was just giving it to me since its family and its my 3rd application.

Not only will he take $7500, I'll also not be getting another $6825 because I only get financed on what I receive after the split.

My dad asked how the commission worked and hes appalled that this other guy gets 50% for sitting on the damn phone and clicking some numbers into an illustration. In my dads eyes, he could of paid an hourly fee based planned $1000 to come up with this and then come buy it straight off me with no help.

I think a more fair split would be 80/20. He still gets paid $3k he would of never had without me, plus the 20% of the renewal forever. However I am hesitant to bring this up and not sure if I am out of line.

Another thing I thought would be fair is if he leaves me 100% commission on paper that way im financed the full $13650 instead of $6825, but still cut him half of the FYC ($7500) with a check, but is that even legal?

Again Im hesitant to ask because I am to new to know if I am out of line or not. The other side of this could easily say well I'll be in the joint work specialist shoes one day and itll makeup for it then....

Should I straight up ask him how were splitting this, and just be blunt and say I don't think thats really fair if he says 50/50?

 

[rousemark]

So at my company any joint work is automatically 50/50 split unless otherwise stated and approved by the sales manager.

I am working on my dad's policy to carve him out an executive bonus plan for his company via whole life.

Were talking a $15,000 commission check. Since I'm new, I get 91% on top of whatever cut I get.

The guy helping me out on this has some time into this, but no more then 4 hours at best. In my contract it says its automatically split 50/50 unless otherwise agreed upon and approved by sales manager.... Im a little annoyed because this is my family member who wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't the agent. The guy helping me never mentioned a split until after he drew everything up, I assumed he was just giving it to me since its family and its my 3rd application.

Not only will he take $7500, I'll also not be getting another $6825 because I only get financed on what I receive after the split.

My dad asked how the commission worked and hes appalled that this other guy gets 50% for sitting on the damn phone and clicking some numbers into an illustration. In my dads eyes, he could of paid an hourly fee based planned $1000 to come up with this and then come buy it straight off me with no help.

I think a more fair split would be 80/20. He still gets paid $3k he would of never had without me, plus the 20% of the renewal forever. However I am hesitant to bring this up and not sure if I am out of line.

Another thing I thought would be fair is if he leaves me 100% commission on paper that way im financed the full $13650 instead of $6825, but still cut him half of the FYC ($7500) with a check, but is that even legal?

Again Im hesitant to ask because I am to new to know if I am out of line or not. The other side of this could easily say well I'll be in the joint work specialist shoes one day and itll makeup for it then....

Should I straight up ask him how were splitting this, and just be blunt and say I don't think thats really fair if he says 50/50?

Sorry, but if it is in your contract that joint work is split 50/50 then you knew that going in. You agreed to it in advance so you have no reason to complain.

 

[timamr]

Maybe this will help. I do health, even though licensed in Life. I refer my health ins. clients to a friend of mine that just does LIFE only. He knows life better than I do, and I know health better than him. We agreed to a 50/50 split from day one. He hardly ever sends me a health lead but I send him a decent amount of life leads and I already have done all the work for him because I have their info. He basically just calls and writes it.

And yes, he wrote my mom and dad a life policy also, simply because I knew he was good and represented 30+ companies, whereas I am captive. I would rather split a commission 50/50 knowing I am doing right by the client. From what I gathered from ur post, you needed this guys help, so he deserves his 50/50. Once you get on ur feet and know the product you will not have to split anymore.

Or....if the co-worker is cool, you might can say, "hey pal, this is my DAD, can we do something like a 70/30 cause the only reason any of us is getting a commission is because he was helping his son (you) out" Chances are, ur co-worker already knows this.

 

[asu47]

Rousemark, I agree with you, but this is also the guy who told me day 1 no ones going to take commission from your family members business.

He deserves something. I never knew he was going to take a split based on his previous statement, until after everythings drawn up. He kinda snaked me I felt like, and I could of easily done the work with whoever would take the lowest cut. I was under the assumption he was going to take none. I was still going to cut him something because my dad benefiting is me benefiting, and this is a solid plan he carved out and I definitely know my family will be taken care of.

Again that is why I came here to ask before I bring it up. I don't want to sound like an entitled punk, but I also don't want to be walked all over.

 

[walthamny]

You could have gone independent from the beginning, spends months training yourself in advanced planning using your own money and time and then go back to your father and develop the plan. When you join a captive in exchange of their training and time they spend on you, you are expected to serve your friends and family to the captive agency. If your father came to me, I would charge 5000 for a plan that size, not 1000. Also fee only insurance is usually offered by CFP's who don't know how to prospect. These fee only insurance advisors are usually not qualified to offer advice in advanced planning of life insurance.

Now the drop out rate for someone like you is something like 95%. If you drop out, the senior advisor is stuck servicing your father for the next 30 years, however, he will only get 50% of renewals. The other 50% goes to the captives pocket if you don't make it. Is it fair, well, I hope you have learned from the experience. I would not have used joint work with your father, as the likely hood of him saying no to you is very low. You could have sold him term for his needs now and convert later when you have more knowledge and experience in this business

 

[DHK]

So at my company any joint work is automatically 50/50 split unless otherwise stated and approved by the sales manager.

I am working on my dad's policy to carve him out an executive bonus plan for his company via whole life.

Were talking a $15,000 commission check. Since I'm new, I get 91% on top of whatever cut I get.

The guy helping me out on this has some time into this, but no more then 4 hours at best. In my contract it says its automatically split 50/50 unless otherwise agreed upon and approved by sales manager.... Im a little annoyed because this is my family member who wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't the agent. The guy helping me never mentioned a split until after he drew everything up, I assumed he was just giving it to me since its family and its my 3rd application.

Not only will he take $7500, I'll also not be getting another $6825 because I only get financed on what I receive after the split.

My dad asked how the commission worked and hes appalled that this other guy gets 50% for sitting on the damn phone and clicking some numbers into an illustration. In my dads eyes, he could of paid an hourly fee based planned $1000 to come up with this and then come buy it straight off me with no help.

Your Dad's opinion is irrelevant here.

I think a more fair split would be 80/20. He still gets paid $3k he would of never had without me, plus the 20% of the renewal forever. However I am hesitant to bring this up and not sure if I am out of line.

Another thing I thought would be fair is if he leaves me 100% commission on paper that way im financed the full $13650 instead of $6825, but still cut him half of the FYC ($7500) with a check, but is that even legal?

Yes, this is LEGAL as long as you also issue a 1099 at the end of the year. However, it may not be an approved company practice. You'd have to check into that yourself.

Again Im hesitant to ask because I am to new to know if I am out of line or not. The other side of this could easily say well I'll be in the joint work specialist shoes one day and itll makeup for it then....

Should I straight up ask him how were splitting this, and just be blunt and say I don't think thats really fair if he says 50/50?

I don't think it's fair that you knew what was going on and now you want to change the agreement. Also, while you "could" issue a check and give a 1099... you also deprive him of receiving HIS sales credit and possible marketing allowance bonuses and other aspects that you may not know about.

I also don't think it's good that you're getting "pity" business because you stated that your Dad wouldn't be doing this if you weren't the agent. What happens to that policy if/when you leave that agency?

I have a feeling that your contact would state that a 50/50 split would not apply if you were working with a MANAGER versus another highly trained and skilled agent.

BTW, I've noticed that only children use the word "fair". But then, I work with cub scouts and boy scouts, and I over-dramatize that word in my training sessions. I would suggest that you drop it from your vocabulary immediately if you want to be taken seriously as an advisor and business person.

 

[rousemark]

Rousemark, I agree with you, but this is also the guy who told me day 1 no ones going to take commission from your family members business.

He deserves something. I never knew he was going to take a split based on his previous statement, until after everythings drawn up. He kinda snaked me I felt like, and I could of easily done the work with whoever would take the lowest cut. I was under the assumption he was going to take none. I was still going to cut him something because my dad benefiting is me benefiting, and this is a solid plan he carved out and I definitely know my family will be taken care of.

Again that is why I came here to ask before I bring it up. I don't want to sound like an entitled punk, but I also don't want to be walked all over.

If he told you that, then that I would certainly call it to his attention..

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Your Dad's opinion is irrelevant here.



Yes, this is LEGAL as long as you also issue a 1099 at the end of the year. However, it may not be an approved company practice. You'd have to check into that yourself.



I don't think it's fair that you knew what was going on and now you want to change the agreement. Also, while you "could" issue a check and give a 1099... you also deprive him of receiving HIS sales credit and possible marketing allowance bonuses and other aspects that you may not know about.

I also don't think it's good that you're getting "pity" business because you stated that your Dad wouldn't be doing this if you weren't the agent. What happens to that policy if/when you leave that agency?

I have a feeling that your contact would state that a 50/50 split would not apply if you were working with a MANAGER versus another highly trained and skilled agent.

BTW, I've noticed that only children use the word "fair". But then, I work with cub scouts and boy scouts, and I over-dramatize that word in my training sessions. I would suggest that you drop it from your vocabulary immediately if you want to be taken seriously as an advisor and business person.

Agree on the word "fair" ... Sounds weak and little girlish even when billionaire presidential candidates uses it..

 

[DHK]

Oh, and the amount of hours spent on a case is irrelevant. Profits are better than wages. You're still thinking like a person who is used to wages. That isn't this business.

Knowing Where To Hit – The Value of Expertise – Using Humor

There is an old story about a multi-million dollar power plant that had mysteriously ground to a halt. All efforts to restart it had failed and an expert was brought in. After studying the problem for a few minutes he took a hammer and hit one of the valves. With a rumble, the plant came back to life. Incredulous glances were shared, grateful cries and high-fives were exchanged. Later, the expert’s bill arrived for the amount of $10,000.00. The outraged executive in charge thought “All he did was hit a valve with a hammer, this bill is ridiculous.” he asked for an itemized breakdown and the consultant responded with a bill that read: “Hitting valve with hammer $10.00. Knowing which valve to hit: $9,990.00.”

 

[heynow5]

It's the black eye of the insurance industry. Not only do they get 50% but often times they get an override on your business as well so in the end they are making more than you on the policies you write. I don't believe it's fair especially on a family case.

But you do have to learn somehow so it's the cost of the education. I started at large broker/dealer and made 36% of the commissions but they provided me an office and great training. So after I figured it out I left after my 3rd year and went indy. Have not regretted it for even 1 second.

It was the cost of my education; a low payout and losing the clients that stayed behind. In their defense I never split one case. All the trainers did so out of kindness and to probably build up limited partnership credits or something of that nature, but they did not get paid based on my sales.

 

[asu47]

I appreciate all the comments it definitely made me feel better about the situation and how to handle it.

This isn't the first time I had someone at the office tell me something verbally, and then go back against it because of what it says in writing. That's a different story though.

DHK,

As for "pity" business, let me rephrase: The business would be going with a different carrier in his local town, not some Agency across the country.

Also, I worked specifically with this guy because he told me he wasn't taking commission from family you bring in when your new. I knew for 100% fact anyone else would take 50/50 unless I negotiated with them first. Again, I had someone tell me something verbally, and then go back to what it says in black and white. Lesson well learned.