Termination “without cause”

[wehotex]

A very skilled, high-volume agent that I know recently got termed from an MA “without cause” for a period of 1 year after admitting to forging a signature of a prospect on a paper app because the applicant lived 2 hours away. Another agent and I were debating if this was standard or not, since we always thought that forgery was AUTOMATIC termination “wth cause”. The agent gets to keep MA renewals and will continue to plan supervise his agents, but will not sell.

 

[adjusterjack]

If the agent was an "employee" (W-2 type) then (in the absence of a written contract) he could be terminated for any reason or no reason as long as it didn't involve illegal discrimination.

If he had a contract (either as employee or independent contractor), then the answer to your question depends ENTIRELY on the terms and conditions of the contract and NOT on what anybody thinks is "standard" or not.

You put the words "without cause" in quotes. Did you read your friend's termination notice? Are you quoting it word for word or are you relying only on what you were "told"?

 

[wehotex]

If the agent was an "employee" (W-2 type) then (in the absence of a written contract) he could be terminated for any reason or no reason as long as it didn't involve illegal discrimination.

If he had a contract (either as employee or independent contractor), then the answer to your question depends ENTIRELY on the terms and conditions of the contract and NOT on what anybody thinks is "standard" or not.

You put the words "without cause" in quotes. Did you read your friend's termination notice? Are you quoting it word for word or are you relying only on what you were "told"?

As far as I know, independent agents’ contracts are essentially the same and have the same rules and clauses. Don’t read too much in my quotes for “without cause”. As far as I know, an agent is terminated either “with cause” or “without cause”- I don’t think that there is an in-between?

 

[adjusterjack]

I don’t think that there is an in-between?

You're right, there is no in between.

So we are back to what was stated in the termination notice.

If you cannot quote the termination notice then I don't know what to tell you.

Makes no sense to me that a termination notice would say "We are terminating you without cause because you forged a signature."

Does that make any sense to you?

 

[MGBAgency]

Does it make a difference? Just curious. Implication wise or legally?

 

[adjusterjack]

Does it make a difference? Just curious. Implication wise or legally?

No, it doesn't. The agent was terminated for forging a signature on an application. It wouldn't even be necessary to use the words "with cause" or "without cause."

The trouble with getting second or third hand information from somebody who "knows somebody" or was "told" something is that the information is often erroneous which is why the exact wording of the termination notice is important for this conversation to make any sense.

 

[rousemark]

Does it make a difference? Just curious. Implication wise or legally?

If you are asking if it makes a differnce if the termination was with or without cause, yes it does. Without cause, he would continue to receive vested renewals... With cause, no further renewals are payable. It is not uncommon for a company to just terminate a agent and not claim "for cause" even though there is reason to do so.

 

[rousemark]

You're right, there is no in between.

So we are back to what was stated in the termination notice.

If you cannot quote the termination notice then I don't know what to tell you.

Makes no sense to me that a termination notice would say "We are terminating you without cause because you forged a signature."

Does that make any sense to you?

The company does not have to give a reason for termination in the termination notice. Every contract I have signed is an at will contract meaning the company or the agent can terminate at any time with proper notice.

 

[VolAgent]

You're right, there is no in between.

So we are back to what was stated in the termination notice.

If you cannot quote the termination notice then I don't know what to tell you.

Makes no sense to me that a termination notice would say "We are terminating you without cause because you forged a signature."

Does that make any sense to you?

I suspect unless it was for cause, most notices will never list a reason. After all, it was "not for cause".

Assuming the story is true, the company may have not felt there was enough evidence to support a for cause termination. Perhaps he had a good sob story so they didn't list it for cause. Maybe the company simply didn't want the attention.

Also I believe some states require that all for cause terminations be reported and why.

There are a million reasons they company could have decided to go "not for cause."

 

[XpressInsurance]

A very skilled, high-volume agent that I know recently got termed from an MA “without cause” for a period of 1 year after admitting to forging a signature of a prospect on a paper app because the applicant lived 2 hours away. Another agent and I were debating if this was standard or not, since we always thought that forgery was AUTOMATIC termination “wth cause”. The agent gets to keep MA renewals and will continue to plan supervise his agents, but will not sell.

I don't think any agent is very skilled if forging names on applications. That is crazy, why would anyone risk your license to do that. I have had lot of clients ask me to sign the application but I don't, because not a darn one of them worth my licenses & my renewals.