Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans

[Winter_123]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

Folks,


So I'm thinking, even if the other agent cleansheeted the simplified issue app, how did he get approved standard issue? I thought that simplified issue products are HARDER to get approved if the client already has had long-standing medical conditions?

"Standard" is not a regulated term. Carriers can define standard however they want. You are thinking that if he is standard with Foresters or Old Mutal how come he is not standard with your UL companies? The reality is that standard with the non-med companies is actually Table D. If you qualify for Table D you fall within their standard. So dont assume that they did or did not find significant health issues with him just because they accepted him at standard with a non-med policy. It only means that they did not find anything that took him below Table D.

Winter

 

[jdeasy]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

Are you saying that OM and Foresters did hardly any underwriting on this guy to get him approved, but if he had to make a claim, they'd pull up his records from years ago and try to deny his claim?

They underwrite more heavily for a claim during the contestability period than they do at application.

I don't know how he got approved at OM on their non med with an enlarged heart, especially if it's Marfan's, unless it wasn't disclosed. If it wasn't disclosed and there has been no tratment other than meds, OM doesn't do a script check as routine. If he takes coumadin and it was disclosed, OM would have declined him.

Foresters is more dilignet on their underwriting. They always do a script check. And, if he was on coumadin, it would have been declined.

Neither of those companies do $1,000,000 as non med. And, as Winter said, "standard" with those 2 companies is thru 4 tables on their non med products.

If they are through the contestability period, you would not be doing them damage to apply for a replacement policy. If they get declined or rated to something they wouldn't accept, they still have their policies.

 

[HomeService]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

I know nothing about foresters and om, but I am saying I have worked for companies in the past -that waited to underwrite -till the claim. Or at least it seemed that way. Because I was getting stuff issued that scared me. Granted, some of these companies may not be doing business the same way -right now. That was 15 years ago.

 

[BiggitySwat]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

They underwrite more heavily for a claim during the contestability period than they do at application.

I don't know how he got approved at OM on their non med with an enlarged heart, especially if it's Marfan's, unless it wasn't disclosed. If it wasn't disclosed and there has been no tratment other than meds, OM doesn't do a script check as routine. If he takes coumadin and it was disclosed, OM would have declined him.

Foresters is more dilignet on their underwriting. They always do a script check. And, if he was on coumadin, it would have been declined.

Neither of those companies do $1,000,000 as non med. And, as Winter said, "standard" with those 2 companies is thru 4 tables on their non med products.

If they are through the contestability period, you would not be doing them damage to apply for a replacement policy. If they get declined or rated to something they wouldn't accept, they still have their policies.

Yeah, the original writing agent on these simp issue term policies cleansheeted the application and did NOT disclose ANYTHING bad about the client's health history. However, I can't and won't do the same because it's a little hard to "Cleansheet" a paramed exam, plus I don't feel comfortable about lying to Aviva anyways.

But at the same time, I feel badly that doing a full paramed on clients with health issues may hurt them more (as far as getting the insurance they want and need) than just having them eat a higher non-med rate for term coverage.

Anyways, I will call Aviva and my FMO's risk assessment for their advice.

 

[jimsthename]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

If the policy can be converted to UL, he could be a candidate for a life settlement. Then, providing he has the capacity proceeds could be used to write another policy. Ideally he would be over 65, but his health impairment issues may make him a candidate

 

[LGilmore]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

carriers for the most part do their own underwriting these days. They don't believe the agent or the applicant. They APS/MIB/MVR and so on. That is why the process now takes longer than it did 20 years ago.

It is possible the guy's condition was better when he applied back then or undiagnosed. The big thing is are these things controlled? Carriers will look at health conditions and look for a pattern of control. In some cases longer with a history of control is better than just diagnosed.

Are the current policies at risk of ending without conversion? If not, call the carriers you are thinking of and simply ask how they view abc condition. Take an app with the best answer and see what happens. If you can improve his situation, you both win. If you can't, really only you lose as he already has coverage.

The only real risk in this situation is yours.

 

[fostever]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

carriers for the most part do their own underwriting these days. They don't believe the agent or the applicant. They APS/MIB/MVR and so on. That is why the process now takes longer than it did 20 years ago.

They will not do an APS on Home Certain. The agent did not disclose the enlarged heart knowing that it would have been immediately rejected. This is obviously a NAA agent who is trying to make it on the leader board. This is the temptation for a newby agent who is spending a ton of $$$ on leads and has no clue about the legal implications of a client dying of a pre-existing condition not listed on the application or one who simply doesn't care about his client. He will eventually crash and burn then be thrown under the bus. I agree, do the client a favor and try do get a decent policy issued that will stand up to underwriting scrutiny. The mortgage protection market has a ton of policies issued like this because the marketing for their products makes them look like GI.

 

[LGilmore]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

I don't know what home certain means? explain.

I don't know who the guy writes for, but most of us in a replacement situation are trying to improve coverage or cost. If we can't, the insured doesn't really lose, they still have coverage, they just can't optimize it. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

 

[DarrylVK]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

However, I can't and won't do the same because it's a little hard to "Cleansheet" a paramed exam, plus I don't feel comfortable about lying to Aviva anyways.

I would hope that no agent would be either comfortable or tempted to lie for money.

Maybe buying whole life to begin with would have been wise?

 

[BiggitySwat]

Re: Worried about Fully Underwritten Plans....

I would hope that no agent would be either comfortable or tempted to lie for money.

Maybe buying whole life to begin with would have been wise?

Yes, or a UL, EIUL, etc.

The reason why the clients did NOT go this route in the beginning was because they were hard-sold three 15 year simp issue term policies in the beginning and did not know it would run out in 15 years. Also, they were/are completely willing to take a para-med if it meant substantial savings on their premium - but they didn't even know they had that option!!! (They were surprised when I asked them to take a para-med for their UL policies).

FYI, the agent who wrote this was an NAA agent who flew in from another state, wrote a bunch of business, then flew back home. The clients have not heard from him in 2 years, and he is ignoring/not returning their calls. Though I still know he is active because he was listed on an Old Mutual leaderboard as one of the top OMFN national salesmen last month.

His commission was approximately $10,000.00.