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Do they not both provide guaranteed insurance coverage for life? The cash value in a whole life is a scam as if you ever use it your death benefit is reduced. Speaking of legality do you tell all your clients that kskj has the option to assess them a special charge? The face amount of a fraternal whole life is truly not "guaranteed". Its rarely happened but do you tell all clients you sell of this remote possibility?

You are wrong on that. The face amount and the premiums are fully guaranteed. As for telling that KSKJ is fraternal? Yes, every person is told they are fraternal. Same when I write RNA and when I used to write Foresters.

And no, they do not both provide the same guarantees.

Try explaining that to the DOI that you tell people that UL's and whole life are the same thing.
 
If i pay the premium each and every month do they both not have the same guarantee my premium will never rise or my death benefit will never decrease?I never said a Ul and whole life were "the same". I said the death benefits for both are guaranteed for the life of the policy if the premiums are paid on time.If you want cash value to use in a policy get whole life with Northwestern or Guardian.As far as a fraternal you're telling me the face amount is guaranteed never to fall and the premium is guaranteed never to go up for the life of the policy? So i guess if a fraternal gets in trouble they can't declare a special assessment to each certificate holder in order for me to keep my same premium and face amount? If i refuse to pay that assessment they won't reduce the face amount of my policy?
 
Didn't we already have this discussion that assessments affect cash value and not death benefit amounts or premium? Considering the poor long term persistency wouldn't cash value be a great benefit somebody versus a GUL that will explode when they don't expect it?
 
Didn't we already have this discussion that assessments affect cash value and not death benefit amounts or premium? Considering the poor long term persistency wouldn't cash value be a great benefit somebody versus a GUL that will explode when they don't expect it?


I've been here 3 1/2 years and this is Round 7 and counting in that time.:yes:
 
Let's expand this further how many of you use the " policy can be changed" language to induce replacements of AARP products.

Will it ever change? Probably not but why else would they put the language in there if not for the ability to change them.
 
Let's expand this further how many of you use the " policy can be changed" language to induce replacements of AARP products.

Will it ever change? Probably not but why else would they put the language in there if not for the ability to change them.


Good point.

Same thing, different product...Heartland National's current Med Supp offering is on a group certificate. When I asked their V.P. to verify that it could be cancelled and it's NOT guaranteed renewable he tried to dance around the answer, but finally did admit that it could be cancelled. No thanks. MOFO did the same thing years ago. That's probably where they got the idea, since MOFO reinsures them.

One of the companies I use for Med Supps is a fraternal and I explain the possibility of an assessment. People seem to like the fact that it's a non profit Christain company.
 
Baseball you're incorrect . This is from Foresters Q&A. They can reduce benefits so the death benefit can be reduced so its not guaranteed .


b. MaintenanceofReserves
Fraternal benefit societies are responsible for their own solvency and reserves. They are not members of the Canadian guarantee fund, Assuris,
or the U.S. state guarantee funds. This means they cannot be assessed to pay for the insolvency of other carriers. However, this does mean that in the event they themselves become insolvent (e.g. that the reserves for a class of certificate become impaired) the Board of Directors may decide to assess
the membership to restore the deficiency.
The assessment is done either by reducing benefits, or by requiring payment of an equitable proportion of the deficiency. The assessment is often temporary.
State law usually prohibits using membership in a guarantee fund as a point of sale issue.
 
Only thing guaranteed in this world is death and taxes. Shenandoah Life was once a "hot" FE provider and I'm sure some of their agents weaseled some sales using that nonsense. How'd that work out?:err:
 
If i pay the premium each and every month do they both not have the same guarantee my premium will never rise or my death benefit will never decrease?I never said a Ul and whole life were "the same". I said the death benefits for both are guaranteed for the life of the policy if the premiums are paid on time.If you want cash value to use in a policy get whole life with Northwestern or Guardian.As far as a fraternal you're telling me the face amount is guaranteed never to fall and the premium is guaranteed never to go up for the life of the policy? So i guess if a fraternal gets in trouble they can't declare a special assessment to each certificate holder in order for me to keep my same premium and face amount? If i refuse to pay that assessment they won't reduce the face amount of my policy?

That's exactly what I'm saying. And it's in writing. The premiums are guaranteed and the death benefit is guaranteed. I'm just talking about KSKJ now. But I'm sure RNA has the same language. It's just not in front of me right now.

They can asses the cash values.

KSKJ and RNA have never done that. They it through 2 world wars and the great depression and never had to do an assessment. Foresters did have one about 100 years ago.

So that does create a loan against the cash value if the person doesn't pay the assessment. But in every case on record that loan was waived if the insured died.

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Let's expand this further how many of you use the " policy can be changed" language to induce replacements of AARP products.

Will it ever change? Probably not but why else would they put the language in there if not for the ability to change them.

Not the same thing. AARP/NYL is a group plan and the contract can be changed at anytime by the owner.

That's completely different than a fraternal doing an assessment.
 
Has it ever? Will it ever? I'm still going to show it to prospects and let them decide if they want that or something that can't change.
 
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