Mutual of Omaha to retire corporate logo

Mutual of Omaha recently announced several new initiatives to address issues of racial equity and social justice, including the removal of Native American imagery from its corporate logo and additional funding for initiatives and charities addressing these issues.

“Mutual of Omaha has a longstanding commitment to diversity and inclusion, both within our company and in our community. As an organization and a leadership team, we are focused on taking additional actions to answer the call for racial equity and inclusion,” said Mutual of Omaha Chairman and CEO James Blackledge. “We have spent time listening to diverse perspectives among our associates, community leaders and diversity and inclusion experts, and are taking further action to advance racial equity and social justice to create meaningful change.”

Mutual will stop using the Native American imagery associated with its corporate logo. The transition away from the current symbol will begin immediately.

“We believe the decision to retire our corporate symbol is the right thing to do and is consistent with our values and our desire to help overcome racial bias and stereotypes,” Blackledge said. “We feel strongly our logo should reflect who we are as a company and our commitment to positive change.”

The company has earmarked $1 million in additional funding for community-based initiatives and non-profit organizations committed to racial equity, inclusivity, economic equality and social justice. In 2019, the company and its Foundation contributed more than $2 million to nearly 60 charitable organizations working in this critical space. In addition, the company will also offer the time and talent of its associates to be directly involved in these initiatives as appropriate.

Mutual also announced it will provide its management team additional training on diversity and inclusion, including unconscious bias training. The company will enhance its efforts to recruit, hire, promote, develop and retain a diverse workforce and heighten its focus on inclusive culture-shaping. Performance expectations will be expanded to evaluate management on progress in these areas.

“We have a longstanding commitment to diversity and inclusion, and a comprehensive diversity and inclusion strategy, so we have not been standing still in this area. However, in terms of outcomes, we have room for improvement and recognize that we must do more,” Blackledge said.

Mutual is also developing a more robust supplier diversity strategy, proactively seeking out vendors from underrepresented communities and purchasing from suppliers who are demonstrably committed to social justice and racial equity.

“As we work to create economic opportunity, it is incumbent upon us to seek diverse suppliers and business partners, and to ensure our vendors share our commitment to social justice and economic equality,” Blackledge said.

Mutual will continue to focus on issues of economic equality and social justice, with additional programs and initiatives in the months ahead, he said.

Mutual of Omaha is a full-service, multi-line organization providing insurance and financial products for individuals, businesses and groups throughout the United States. For more information visit www.mutualofomaha.com.

154 COMMENTS

  1. scagnt83

    Bob, so why does it matter so much? (either way)

    It doesn't to 99.1% of people, including American Indians… (I refuse to call them "Native Americans" because those that are alive today are no more Native American than I or anyone else born in this country)

  2. rousemark

    It doesn't to 99.1% of people, including American Indians… (I refuse to call them "Native Americans" because those that are alive today are no more Native American than I or anyone else born in this country)

    It's corporate pandering. "Me too" if you will.

    I doubt the MSM will report this but food makers and sports teams are still in the headlines for changing their logo's.

  3. If what you say is true "99% of the public do not know what they logo is in the first place"… then it hasnt been a very effective logo has it??

    Seems like its a case of a private company making a business decision they feel is in the best interest of the company and best interest of the policy holders they are legally bound to serve (being a mutual company).

    Having a culturally insensitive logo, in modern times, is a potential financial risk to your company. Which would not be in the best interest of the policy holders they are legally bound to serve.

    Very few if any new businesses utilize that type of imagery as a corporate logo this day and age. Why on earth would an established company keep that imagery…. especially if it has not been effective in the first place…. ???

    Now perhaps the issue is that some people feel the imagery is not offensive. And are upset a business feels forced to change their logo or name because of an issue they feel is not a "real issue". Here is the thing about that… when the people being depicted in an image feel the image is offensive… by very definition that makes it offensive. Doesnt matter who thinks its not offensive, the only thing making offensive or not, is how it affects the group of people that image depicts.

    Going back to the business decision that was made.Times change. Businesses like MoO must stay ahead of the curve if they plan to survive another 100 years. Smart business decision. Good press vs. bad press. You can choose to be stuck in an outdated and insensitive mindset, or you can choose to grow and evolve. MoO made the right decision.

  4. fed up

    Sometimes it is best to change BEFORE any complaints are received

    Exactly. Some businesses care more about the business survival. than they do their own petty political beliefs or personal biases. Especially when they are legally bound to act in the best interest of the businesses clients (like a mutual insurer is).

  5. fed up

    Sometimes it is best to change BEFORE any complaints are received

    Exactly. Some businesses care more about the business survival. than they do their own petty political beliefs or personal biases. Especially when they are legally bound to act in the best interest of the businesses clients (like a mutual insurer is).

  6. fed up

    And it could be because the merchandising of their name wasn't selling as well as it had been so they figure a change could bring in more marketing dollars.

    Exactly. Bob's point about it not being a well known logo is very true… and makes an even more compelling reason for a business to change logos. Not only is it not selling well… but it could potentially be bad press. Very sound business decision.

  7. scagnt83

    . Here is the thing about that… when the people being depicted in an image feel the image is offensive… by very definition that makes it offensive. Doesnt matter who thinks its not offensive, the only thing making offensive or not, is how it affects the group of people that image depicts.

    Do you know for sure that it’s offensive to the people being depicted? I wonder if anybody has actually asked the Omaha People (the tribe, not the city). In the better known Washington Redskins controversy, what seems to have been lost is the actual history of how that logo came to be, which is a point of pride for many First Americans:

    Washington Redskins logo has deep connection to Blackfeet reservation, Wetzel family

  8. ATM

    Well if they were really sincere they would get rid of Omaha from their name!

    and mutual too. Mutual is offensive to those of us loners, like it is forced that we must be part of something.

    new name– Happy Inclusive Insurance Company of Earth

  9. It really doesn't matter one way or the other. Just seems to be caught up in the movement of changing names/logo's/mascots just for the heck of it.

    How many sales have companies like Uncle Ben's, Aunt Jemima, Cracker Jack and MOO lost because folks found their name/logo to be offensive.

    How many future sales will they lose for the desire to remove a well known logo? Will Uncle Ben become Mr. Bill? Will Mr. Bill be Asian since Asia produces much of the world's rice?

    When will La Choy (started by a Korean) change their brand name and logo?

    Where does this end?

    In the case of MOO, why run a press release announcing a change that most everyone will think "so what?".

    It smacks of politicians (either party, regardless of race) that make speeches in churches as we get close to election time. Then they disappear for 2 to 4 years and come back pandering to the crowd and cameras.

    If they remove the "chief" (was he a real person or just a caricature?) and replace him with this image, perhaps they will see an uptick in sales.

    [​IMG]

  10. Allen Trent

    and mutual too. Mutual is offensive to those of us loners, like it is forced that we must be part of something.

    new name– Happy Inclusive Insurance Company of Earth

    You mentioned in another thread that you have tribal blood in your veins. Are you offended to the logo as well as your loner issues?

  11. Allen Trent

    and mutual too. Mutual is offensive to those of us loners, like it is forced that we must be part of something.

    new name– Happy Inclusive Insurance Company of Earth

    You mentioned in another thread that you have tribal blood in your veins. Are you offended to the logo as well as your loner issues?

  12. All this nonsense PLUS the ambush and cold blooded MURDERS of several cops is based on LIES!
    "Hands up, don't shoot." LIE
    Jussie. LIE
    "Whitey hung a noose in my bay!" LIE
    "Cops treat blacks worse than whites." LIE
    There remains ZERO evidence of racism in the Floyd killing.
    The Atlanta shooting of "taser boy" was a valid shooting. That cop was trying his best to be cordial until the drunk went agro.
    BLACK LIES MATTER!
    My girlfriend wears a badge. She and I are both concerned about the anger stirred up by LIES.
    Here's another reason why black lies matter. If I'm hiring employees, do you think I'll consider the potential problems black people on staff may present? "Oh! Hank told an insensitive joke. I'm taking you to court!" Who needs that?

  13. somarco

    You mentioned in another thread that you have tribal blood in your veins. Are you offended to the logo as well as your loner issues?

    I am very outgoing online & in forums as an alter ego. My skin tone indicates native blood line as my grand mother always told us a great grandmother was 100% Cherokee. I have become a bit more suspicious just like Liz Warren, who devastatingly recently learned her relatives had lied about her bloodline (easy to blame dead people). I keep waiting for big casino checks to come rolling in, but until they do it is just me & my loner self assisting the masses to protect from catastrophic events that insurance can cover

  14. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I got a box of crackers in my nightstand with her name on it.

    I have absolutely zero idea what that means, but it does sound dirty, certainly politically correct these days & potentially illegal in some states (except in autonomous zones or near monuments)

  15. Allen Trent

    yeah, but the municipality of Omaha was culturally appropriated (2020 speak), so therefore it never really existed. I dont make the rules, I just try to be woke AF about them

    Plus this is all stolen land as is.

    We colonized and stole this land from indigenous people's.

    Never mind that Indian tribes stole each other lands for as long as they existed. All that matters is the white settlers are the bad ones and the only ones who must be punished.

    If we employed the woke logic, we'd have to find which Indian tribe first occupied the land before it was stolen from another Indian tribe. Those first indigenous folks are the rightful owners and everyone else should pay homage and royalties to them.

    But wait…

    Humans evolved from single cell organisms that lived in the oceans. Before there were Indian humans, there were other species before that them that occupied this land. Those are the rightful owners of this land!

    Come to think of it, the Indians (even the first ones) practiced speciesism by taking the land for themselves. They should have let the nonevolved peoples keep the land for themselves.

    Indians man. Freakin abelist speciesist evolved peoples conquerers. They are the true devils.

  16. Allen Trent

    yeah, but the municipality of Omaha was culturally appropriated (2020 speak), so therefore it never really existed. I dont make the rules, I just try to be woke AF about them

    Plus this is all stolen land as is.

    We colonized and stole this land from indigenous people's.

    Never mind that Indian tribes stole each other lands for as long as they existed. All that matters is the white settlers are the bad ones and the only ones who must be punished.

    If we employed the woke logic, we'd have to find which Indian tribe first occupied the land before it was stolen from another Indian tribe. Those first indigenous folks are the rightful owners and everyone else should pay homage and royalties to them.

    But wait…

    Humans evolved from single cell organisms that lived in the oceans. Before there were Indian humans, there were other species before that them that occupied this land. Those are the rightful owners of this land!

    Come to think of it, the Indians (even the first ones) practiced speciesism by taking the land for themselves. They should have let the nonevolved peoples keep the land for themselves.

    Indians man. Freakin abelist speciesist evolved peoples conquerers. They are the true devils.

  17. Allen Trent

    yeah, but the municipality of Omaha was culturally appropriated (2020 speak), so therefore it never really existed. I dont make the rules, I just try to be woke AF about them

    Plus this is all stolen land as is.

    We colonized and stole this land from indigenous people's.

    Never mind that Indian tribes stole each other lands for as long as they existed. All that matters is the white settlers are the bad ones and the only ones who must be punished.

    If we employed the woke logic, we'd have to find which Indian tribe first occupied the land before it was stolen from another Indian tribe. Those first indigenous folks are the rightful owners and everyone else should pay homage and royalties to them.

    But wait…

    Humans evolved from single cell organisms that lived in the oceans. Before there were Indian humans, there were other species before that them that occupied this land. Those are the rightful owners of this land!

    Come to think of it, the Indians (even the first ones) practiced speciesism by taking the land for themselves. They should have let the nonevolved peoples keep the land for themselves.

    Indians man. Freakin abelist speciesist evolved peoples conquerers. They are the true devils.

  18. my take – because I am trying to stall from having a beer until 1700.

    I could not give fewer shits one way or another. It does not have an affect on me or my clients.

    No more than any other Insurance company changing their name. OK, VOYA was just stupid.

    Nor do I care if a company wants me to have a press 2 for spanish, hmong or hillbillie. Now it does iritate me a little when I have to press 1 for english as I feel it should be the default. But I do not want to start my own bank or want them to tell me how to operate my business so I am cool with it. Same if they require me to wear a mask to enter a coffee shop. I will put it on or go make my own coffee.

    It is only a picture. BFD.

    2 more minutes.

    I think Coors going back to the old school bottles was a cool idea. Now, if they would put some real beer in them.

    tick, tick tick

    Yaba Daba Do !!!!

  19. WinoBlues

    my take – because I am trying to stall from having a beer until 1700.

    Have one at 820 pm & 20 seconds when it is 20:20:20 in 2020. Even better have a Mad Dog 2020 for old times sake. I think they changed their offensive name too to MD 2020 because it alienated the Happy & Sad people & most like super pissed off the Cat people who tend to be 20x more vocal than dog people

  20. Allen Trent

    I have absolutely zero idea what that means, but it does sound dirty, certainly politically correct these days & potentially illegal in some states (except in autonomous zones or near monuments)

    I wouldn't kick her out of bed if she were to eat em. It's an old cliche.

  21. ATM

    Well if they were really sincere they would get rid of Omaha from their name!

    Really. Whenever I watched Peyton Manning, I thought to myself, "How does that racist asshole get away with saying that on TV a hundred times a game?".;)

  22. PA Bill

    Really. Whenever I watched Peyton Manning, I thought to myself, "How does that racist asshole get away with saying that on TV a hundred times a game?".;)

    The record books will be deleting all passing yards, completions & TDs on plays he screamed those barbaric slurs to the cheers & adoration of the stadiums full of supremacists. Those stats will be redistributed to other players who didn't scream Omaha. Nationwide insurance to announce he is canceled as a spokesman. Out of respect they will change name
    as the word Nation infers pride of our Nation.

  23. shonceman

    Do you know for sure that it’s offensive to the people being depicted? I wonder if anybody has actually asked the Omaha People (the tribe, not the city). In the better known Washington Redskins controversy, what seems to have been lost is the actual history of how that logo came to be, which is a point of pride for many First Americans:

    Washington Redskins logo has deep connection to Blackfeet reservation, Wetzel family

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    Ask yourself why tens of thousands of native americans are against that logo (not just the redskins or MoO, but the indian head "chief" caricature in general)

    Or look up some historical facts about how that imagery has been used, and the meanings behind it, and why it came to be.

  24. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    Ask yourself why tens of thousands of native americans are against that logo (not just the redskins or MoO, but the indian head "chief" caricature in general)

    Or look up some historical facts about how that imagery has been used, and the meanings behind it, and why it came to be.

    You are going to have a problem getting any sympathy out of me over caricatures…. Have you seen what they do to people from the south? Especially the mountain folk? No one seems to think that is wrong.. How about the ignorant, inbreed, toothless guy from Alabama?

  25. somarco

    When will La Choy (started by a Korean) change their brand name and logo?

    Where does this end?

    In the case of MOO, why run a press release announcing a change that most everyone will think "so what?".

    MoO logo is an image with hundreds of years of historical use as a derogatory image.

    "La Choy" is a Korean phrase with French roots with a loose meaning of "joy" or "the joy".

    Not even close to the same thing.

    It ends with derogatory images or names. Not hard.

  26. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    that is a great point actually. easy to be distant from the real issue at hand if you are the one benefiting. hopefully all these decisions are being made with conversations with a larger representation of the affected population

  27. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    that is a great point actually. easy to be distant from the real issue at hand if you are the one benefiting. hopefully all these decisions are being made with conversations with a larger representation of the affected population

  28. rousemark

    You are going to have a problem getting any sympathy out of me over caricatures…. Have you seen what they do to people from the south? Especially the mountain folk? No one seems to think that is wrong.. How about the ignorant, inbreed, toothless guy from Alabama?

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

  29. rousemark

    You are going to have a problem getting any sympathy out of me over caricatures…. Have you seen what they do to people from the south? Especially the mountain folk? No one seems to think that is wrong.. How about the ignorant, inbreed, toothless guy from Alabama?

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

  30. somarco

    It really doesn't matter one way or the other. Just seems to be caught up in the movement of changing names/logo's/mascots just for the heck of it.

    Then why multiple posts lamenting the change?

    What would it do to MoO if a boycott did occur? Or if protesters suddenly appeared at MoO offices around the country??

    You honestly think that would not have any effect on their business or on their policy holders? Protests outside of local offices would certainly mean lost sales… and bad publicity about your image is hard to shake.

    It was a business decision. And a smart one at that.

    You can make it a political/moral issue if you want. There is certainly plenty to discuss on that topic. But at the end of the day, any smart business that wants to survive long term would do the same thing. Many already have.

  31. somarco

    It really doesn't matter one way or the other. Just seems to be caught up in the movement of changing names/logo's/mascots just for the heck of it.

    Then why multiple posts lamenting the change?

    What would it do to MoO if a boycott did occur? Or if protesters suddenly appeared at MoO offices around the country??

    You honestly think that would not have any effect on their business or on their policy holders? Protests outside of local offices would certainly mean lost sales… and bad publicity about your image is hard to shake.

    It was a business decision. And a smart one at that.

    You can make it a political/moral issue if you want. There is certainly plenty to discuss on that topic. But at the end of the day, any smart business that wants to survive long term would do the same thing. Many already have.

  32. Allen Trent

    My skin tone indicates native blood line as my grand mother always told us a great grandmother was 100% Cherokee. I have become a bit more suspicious just like Liz Warren, who devastatingly recently learned her relatives had lied about her bloodline (easy to blame dead people).

    I think half the kids who grew up in GA/SC/NC/TN/VA region were told that! LOL.

  33. Allen Trent

    My skin tone indicates native blood line as my grand mother always told us a great grandmother was 100% Cherokee. I have become a bit more suspicious just like Liz Warren, who devastatingly recently learned her relatives had lied about her bloodline (easy to blame dead people).

    I think half the kids who grew up in GA/SC/NC/TN/VA region were told that! LOL.

  34. Business decision? Here' the thing. Sports are entertainment- escapism from all the bullshit. Now they want to bring this disingenuous garbage into my living room?
    *** 'em, they can keep it!:mad:
    p.s,- I used to maintain my ridiculous cable bill primarily for Sixers, Phillies, and Flyers games. I dropped that shit awhile back (I'm far from alone). Yeah, smart business decision.:skeptical:

  35. Business decision? Here' the thing. Sports are entertainment- escapism from all the bullshit. Now they want to bring this disingenuous garbage into my living room?
    *** 'em, they can keep it!:mad:
    p.s,- I used to maintain my ridiculous cable bill primarily for Sixers, Phillies, and Flyers games. I dropped that shit awhile back (I'm far from alone). Yeah, smart business decision.:skeptical:

  36. Moderate dem JIm Webb of Virginia was asked long ago what the appeal of Trump was. He said the democratic party acts like the only poor people are minorit and people in SW Virginia resent it. Not only do they not get help, they get called "privileged".
    Yeah, folks in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA are "privileged". Ever been there? I was last week. Yeah, "privileged".:D

  37. Moderate dem JIm Webb of Virginia was asked long ago what the appeal of Trump was. He said the democratic party acts like the only poor people are minorit and people in SW Virginia resent it. Not only do they not get help, they get called "privileged".
    Yeah, folks in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA are "privileged". Ever been there? I was last week. Yeah, "privileged".:D

  38. PA Bill

    Business decision? Here' the thing. Sports are entertainment- escapism from all the bullshit. Now they want to bring this disingenuous garbage into my living room?
    *** 'em, they can keep it!:mad:
    p.s,- I used to maintain my ridiculous cable bill primarily for Sixers, Phillies, and Flyers games. I dropped that shit awhile back (I'm far from alone). Yeah, smart business decision.:skeptical:

    I lost interest in baseball when The Atlanta Braves lead the league to go on strike mid season many years ago. The Cincinnati Reds were like, "Let's play ball!" But, John Smoltz and The Braves were like, "No! More money or we're taking our ball and going home." The Braves killed America's pastime.

  39. PA Bill

    Business decision? Here' the thing. Sports are entertainment- escapism from all the bullshit. Now they want to bring this disingenuous garbage into my living room?
    *** 'em, they can keep it!:mad:
    p.s,- I used to maintain my ridiculous cable bill primarily for Sixers, Phillies, and Flyers games. I dropped that shit awhile back (I'm far from alone). Yeah, smart business decision.:skeptical:

    I lost interest in baseball when The Atlanta Braves lead the league to go on strike mid season many years ago. The Cincinnati Reds were like, "Let's play ball!" But, John Smoltz and The Braves were like, "No! More money or we're taking our ball and going home." The Braves killed America's pastime.

  40. The Minersville School district languished for decades and ranked near the bottom of PA school districts. Were they ever offered help like the cities? The education secretary was asked why they were ignored for so long.
    He said he didn't know why, but we do.:yes:

  41. The Minersville School district languished for decades and ranked near the bottom of PA school districts. Were they ever offered help like the cities? The education secretary was asked why they were ignored for so long.
    He said he didn't know why, but we do.:yes:

  42. PA Bill

    Moderate dem JIm Webb of Virginia was asked long ago what the appeal of Trump was. He said the democratic party acts like the only poor people are minorit and people in SW Virginia resent it. Not only do they not get help, they get called "privileged".
    Yeah, folks in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA are "privileged". Ever been there? I was last week. Yeah, "privileged".:D

    I used to have to go there when I lived in Roanoke, places like Kimball, Keystone, Welsh and War WV. It was…..interesting. There are a few Russian Orthodox churches with onion dome roofs. Along the river around Welsh you can't tell the abandoned houses from the occupied ones. I remember seeing a couple of young boys downtown in Welsh one day and wanted to tell them, "Get out of here! As soon as you turn 18, leave this place immediately!"

  43. PA Bill

    Business decision? Here' the thing. Sports are entertainment- escapism from all the bullshit. Now they want to bring this disingenuous garbage into my living room?

    I wasnt aware that Mutual of Omaha also had a professional sports team.

    You havent watched sports for very long have you??

  44. scagnt83

    I wasnt aware that Mutual of Omaha also had a professional sports team.

    You havent watched sports for very long have you??

    Isn't the logo depicting an indian in his Sunday feathers, that is, in the best possible light? You know, the root problem remains excessive pride. What is it the indians have to be proud of so much? Mike McConnell mentioned several days ago that 3 out of 5 indian reservations have no high school programs. Maybe it's time for indians to assimilate? I mean, how much longer will their culture carry them into the future? There are only so many jobs at the casinos.

  45. PA Bill

    Man, you are fuckin' stupid. And just like the blacks, you can't fix stupid!:no:

    I hope the mods read this and ban you. This thread has nothing to do with black people but you out here showing your true colors. Just like when referred you to the rioteers as "chimps."

  46. PA Bill

    Man, you are fuckin' stupid. And just like the blacks, you can't fix stupid!:no:

    I hope the mods read this and ban you. This thread has nothing to do with black people but you out here showing your true colors. Just like when referred you to the rioteers as "chimps."

  47. Tothetop

    I hope the mods read this and ban you. This thread has nothing to do with black people but you out here showing your true colors. Just like when referred you to the rioteers as "chimps."

    This thread has EVERYTHING to do with blacks.
    Blacks DO seem to have an on-going problem they can't seem to fix.
    That problem IS impacting everyone.
    Rioters DO look like chimps.
    Mitch McConnell DOES look like a turtle.
    Mayor Lightfoot DOES look like ET's mom.
    Sheila Jackson Lee DOES look like a gorilla (seems like she tries to).
    I'm more than willing to be labeled "racist" if that's a result of stating facts.

  48. This thread is about a company changing its logo so no one finds it offensive and they end up losing money. You really think all these companies are social justice warriors?

    Dont be so gullible. The only thing that motivates a company is their bottom-line. I think most of these CEO's can care less about these movements.

    They care about who or what will bring in or not bring in the money.

    You run a billion dollar company with a board and shareholders to answer to and let me know how much time you have to care about social justice reform.

  49. Nike will have a bunch of social justice reform commercials to appease their star athletes and prime customers while donating more money to the Republican party during an election season.

    Why is that? Because Republican policies help them do better as a business. Its all about money for these guys. But some of you can continue to be sheep and think its about "changing America"

  50. fed up

    Sometimes it is best to change BEFORE any complaints are received

    I am very offended that I have to "pay" for coverage… I would like to complain about premium cost and how it seems like only people who have money can "buy" things. I feel as though I am being marginalized and companies are prejudice because they want money.

    I wonder how businesses will survive the next round of attacks… can you say "health care".

    Writings on the wall.

  51. scagnt83

    MoO logo is an image with hundreds of years of historical use as a derogatory image.

    "La Choy" is a Korean phrase with French roots with a loose meaning of "joy" or "the joy".

    Not even close to the same thing.

    It ends with derogatory images or names. Not hard.

    And just about EVERY poll taken by the Washington Football Organization at gatherings of or Reservations of Native Americans found that the majority took no offense to the name or logo. This has been going on for years and each time a group tried to show that there was general displeasure to the logo or name the results came back the same. There has been a very vocal minority of people in the DC area who have told everyone that they SHOULD be offended and if they aren't offended they are wrong. And I still have no idea what woke means outside of sleep

  52. Allen Trent

    Need a hate emoji for your ridiculous hateful comment. It says way, way more about you. Hope the forum bans you because you certainly crossed the line

    Sorry Allen, this ain't about equality. It's about payback. Just like South Africa. They started this shit, but guess who's going to end it?:cool:

  53. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This thread has EVERYTHING to do with blacks.
    Blacks DO seem to have an on-going problem they can't seem to fix.
    That problem IS impacting everyone.
    Rioters DO look like chimps.
    Mitch McConnell DOES look like a turtle.
    Mayor Lightfoot DOES look like ET's mom.
    Sheila Jackson Lee DOES look like a gorilla (seems like she tries to).
    I'm more than willing to be labeled "racist" if that's a result of stating facts.

    Not 1 thing you said is a fact. Every item you listed is your opinion & most of your listed opinions make you a Bigot at a minimum

  54. Allen Trent

    Not 1 thing you said is a fact. Every item you listed is your opinion & most of your listed opinions make you a Bigot at a minimum

    Well, that response is tantamount to, "I don't like what you're saying but I'm unable to offer specifics regarding the issues I have."

    Why not offer substance instead? Do you deny that SJL looks like a gorilla or was my Mitch McConnell insult the one that makes me a bigot?

    Whatever you do, don't label me a bigot or racist. It might hurt my feelings so bad I may need to seek counseling. It's not like I've been hearing it all my life despite all the kindness I've shown to minorities.

  55. fed up

    And just about EVERY poll taken by the Washington Football Organization at gatherings of or Reservations of Native Americans found that the majority took no offense to the name or logo. This has been going on for years and each time a group tried to show that there was general displeasure to the logo or name the results came back the same. There has been a very vocal minority of people in the DC area who have told everyone that they SHOULD be offended and if they aren't offended they are wrong. And I still have no idea what woke means outside of sleep

    Doesnt matter. They receive a ton of negative press about the issue which may have an effect on their bottom line. Even if stats were to show Native Americans dont care, the media keeps making it seem like they do.

    MOO is probably just trying to get ahead of a problem that may arise. Personally, I dont believe it would arise because people barely remember the name of their insurance carrier yet alone their logo

  56. Hmm… these threads are really taking a turning point.

    I am amazed how too often "well educated" and "well meaning" people communicate so poorly.

    Perhaps if we would address one another as we often do our own clients… look for common ground first.

    Seek first to understand and then be understood.

    We must be careful that we don't buy emotionally what others are offering… the price might be to high in the end.

  57. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    Ask yourself why tens of thousands of native americans are against that logo (not just the redskins or MoO, but the indian head "chief" caricature in general)

    Or look up some historical facts about how that imagery has been used, and the meanings behind it, and why it came to be.

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

  58. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    Ask yourself why tens of thousands of native americans are against that logo (not just the redskins or MoO, but the indian head "chief" caricature in general)

    Or look up some historical facts about how that imagery has been used, and the meanings behind it, and why it came to be.

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

  59. scagnt83

    You think because one of the extremely few wealthy native american families, the one who profited off of the logo, says its ok. Then its ok?

    Ask yourself why tens of thousands of native americans are against that logo (not just the redskins or MoO, but the indian head "chief" caricature in general)

    Or look up some historical facts about how that imagery has been used, and the meanings behind it, and why it came to be.

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

  60. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I address everyone like they're my brother. I refuse to be less than honest.

    I have relatives I don't want at the moment…. why in the world would anyone want more? :huh: … :laugh:… 😉

    Now when it comes to your friends, real friends tell you when you have a booger in your nose and when your fly is down… there are some on here that need a tissue. :yes:

  61. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I address everyone like they're my brother. I refuse to be less than honest.

    I have relatives I don't want at the moment…. why in the world would anyone want more? :huh: … :laugh:… 😉

    Now when it comes to your friends, real friends tell you when you have a booger in your nose and when your fly is down… there are some on here that need a tissue. :yes:

  62. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I address everyone like they're my brother. I refuse to be less than honest.

    I have relatives I don't want at the moment…. why in the world would anyone want more? :huh: … :laugh:… 😉

    Now when it comes to your friends, real friends tell you when you have a booger in your nose and when your fly is down… there are some on here that need a tissue. :yes:

  63. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    My great, great grandfather was taken from his home in Cheyenne territory and relocated to a boarding school in Pennsylvania, where they attempted to re-educate the “savage Indian” children. Not the “Wounded Knee” level of oppression, but I’m well aware that the white dominated US government has treated the native populations pretty badly. Even today, my mom will tell you many a story about her frustrations in dealing with the BIA when trying to care for her aging Navajo mother-in-law.

  64. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    My great, great grandfather was taken from his home in Cheyenne territory and relocated to a boarding school in Pennsylvania, where they attempted to re-educate the “savage Indian” children. Not the “Wounded Knee” level of oppression, but I’m well aware that the white dominated US government has treated the native populations pretty badly. Even today, my mom will tell you many a story about her frustrations in dealing with the BIA when trying to care for her aging Navajo mother-in-law.

  65. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    My great, great grandfather was taken from his home in Cheyenne territory and relocated to a boarding school in Pennsylvania, where they attempted to re-educate the “savage Indian” children. Not the “Wounded Knee” level of oppression, but I’m well aware that the white dominated US government has treated the native populations pretty badly. Even today, my mom will tell you many a story about her frustrations in dealing with the BIA when trying to care for her aging Navajo mother-in-law.

  66. shonceman

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

    @shonceman your comment reflects poor taste, is misguided, and saddens me that in 2020 you think like this and I must address it.

    So here it goes – How dare you shake your head at the idea of being a Cardinals fan and MOST IMPORTANTLY hating the Cowboys?!

  67. shonceman

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

    @shonceman your comment reflects poor taste, is misguided, and saddens me that in 2020 you think like this and I must address it.

    So here it goes – How dare you shake your head at the idea of being a Cardinals fan and MOST IMPORTANTLY hating the Cowboys?!

  68. shonceman

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

    @shonceman your comment reflects poor taste, is misguided, and saddens me that in 2020 you think like this and I must address it.

    So here it goes – How dare you shake your head at the idea of being a Cardinals fan and MOST IMPORTANTLY hating the Cowboys?!

  69. Allen Trent

    Not 1 thing you said is a fact. Every item you listed is your opinion & most of your listed opinions make you a Bigot at a minimum

    It's only been that way all through all of human history. It's a jungle out there and only a fool thinks otherwise. The government doesn't create anything. To give to me, they have to take from you.
    But the assholes who push this garbage never take from themselves. They take it from poor people in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA.:idea:

  70. Allen Trent

    Not 1 thing you said is a fact. Every item you listed is your opinion & most of your listed opinions make you a Bigot at a minimum

    It's only been that way all through all of human history. It's a jungle out there and only a fool thinks otherwise. The government doesn't create anything. To give to me, they have to take from you.
    But the assholes who push this garbage never take from themselves. They take it from poor people in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA.:idea:

  71. Allen Trent

    Not 1 thing you said is a fact. Every item you listed is your opinion & most of your listed opinions make you a Bigot at a minimum

    It's only been that way all through all of human history. It's a jungle out there and only a fool thinks otherwise. The government doesn't create anything. To give to me, they have to take from you.
    But the assholes who push this garbage never take from themselves. They take it from poor people in SW Virginia and Minersville, PA.:idea:

  72. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

  73. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

  74. scagnt83

    Considering that Ive live in southern appalachia for 37 years… yes, I have.

    Do two wrongs make a right?

    And here is the thing about that…

    Us Mountain folk have never faced genocide.

    Us Mountain folk have never been physically enslaved and systematically tortured and raped and had babies ripped out of our arms just to be sold to also be tortured and raped and used as property.

    I dont agree with the hillbilly caricature. Its wrong, both factually and morally. But the hillbilly stereotype is pushed mainly by white people up north and out west…. not from a group of people that tried to kill and rape mountain folk out of existence… huge difference.

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

  75. Bigot? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts my neighborhood is more diverse than yours. Muslim refugees across the street, Hispanics to the left and blacks to the right. My town is 55% black and we all get along beautifully.
    A few BLM signs went up, but I noticed two black neighbors took theirs down. Maybe thy're tired of being used by white liberals to win elections. The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

  76. Bigot? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts my neighborhood is more diverse than yours. Muslim refugees across the street, Hispanics to the left and blacks to the right. My town is 55% black and we all get along beautifully.
    A few BLM signs went up, but I noticed two black neighbors took theirs down. Maybe thy're tired of being used by white liberals to win elections. The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

  77. Bigot? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts my neighborhood is more diverse than yours. Muslim refugees across the street, Hispanics to the left and blacks to the right. My town is 55% black and we all get along beautifully.
    A few BLM signs went up, but I noticed two black neighbors took theirs down. Maybe thy're tired of being used by white liberals to win elections. The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

  78. PA Bill

    The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

    In my case, most of my past white relatives got to build the railroads… better than starving to death looking for potatoes. :yes:

    White Irish are always a problem when people go looking for color to be the main issue of race.

    Guess I'll need to start burning buildings down and shooting small children and police officers before people wake up and listen to my problem of being white. A lot of white bodies buried around those rail road lines. 😡

  79. PA Bill

    The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

    In my case, most of my past white relatives got to build the railroads… better than starving to death looking for potatoes. :yes:

    White Irish are always a problem when people go looking for color to be the main issue of race.

    Guess I'll need to start burning buildings down and shooting small children and police officers before people wake up and listen to my problem of being white. A lot of white bodies buried around those rail road lines. 😡

  80. PA Bill

    The whites get the money and power, they get the blame. What a sweetheart you are.:noteworthy:

    In my case, most of my past white relatives got to build the railroads… better than starving to death looking for potatoes. :yes:

    White Irish are always a problem when people go looking for color to be the main issue of race.

    Guess I'll need to start burning buildings down and shooting small children and police officers before people wake up and listen to my problem of being white. A lot of white bodies buried around those rail road lines. 😡

  81. I do not allow what others have done in the past to navigate my future. I will not be chained to act like those in days gone by.

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    It is time to move on and build a life together… the bitterness that surrounds saddling the future bast of actions of the past is short sighted and ignorance on display.

    Our children need hope, not hope reliving the past, but hope based on moving forward to a future that sees all life as mattering. Funny how we see progressive people mired in the past, drowning themselves in process.

    I will not participate.

  82. I do not allow what others have done in the past to navigate my future. I will not be chained to act like those in days gone by.

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    It is time to move on and build a life together… the bitterness that surrounds saddling the future bast of actions of the past is short sighted and ignorance on display.

    Our children need hope, not hope reliving the past, but hope based on moving forward to a future that sees all life as mattering. Funny how we see progressive people mired in the past, drowning themselves in process.

    I will not participate.

  83. I do not allow what others have done in the past to navigate my future. I will not be chained to act like those in days gone by.

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    It is time to move on and build a life together… the bitterness that surrounds saddling the future bast of actions of the past is short sighted and ignorance on display.

    Our children need hope, not hope reliving the past, but hope based on moving forward to a future that sees all life as mattering. Funny how we see progressive people mired in the past, drowning themselves in process.

    I will not participate.

  84. Life Hawk

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    discriminating against people with no legs, those that wear skirts, nudists & Walmart customers. should edit this to say most privileged & blessed pants believe people put their pants on 1 leg at a time and for those that don't, I support their right to be anti-pants

  85. Life Hawk

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    discriminating against people with no legs, those that wear skirts, nudists & Walmart customers. should edit this to say most privileged & blessed pants believe people put their pants on 1 leg at a time and for those that don't, I support their right to be anti-pants

  86. Life Hawk

    My creed is everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time. Everyone.

    discriminating against people with no legs, those that wear skirts, nudists & Walmart customers. should edit this to say most privileged & blessed pants believe people put their pants on 1 leg at a time and for those that don't, I support their right to be anti-pants

  87. rousemark

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

    Read the autobiography of Frederick Douglas. Its a small book. I have it in my library. That book alone will show you why the U.S. is condemned the most.

  88. rousemark

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

    Read the autobiography of Frederick Douglas. Its a small book. I have it in my library. That book alone will show you why the U.S. is condemned the most.

  89. rousemark

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here, However, I in no way try to claim the oppression put upon the blacks. But white people weren't the only people involved in that. Black chieftains took others slaves and then sold them to the white traders.. Why are they not asking for reparations from those countries… or trying to visit the sins of those days on the African descendants of today. Or, why do they not acknowledge that slavery existed on the African continent long after it was ended in the US? Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

    Read the autobiography of Frederick Douglas. Its a small book. I have it in my library. That book alone will show you why the U.S. is condemned the most.

  90. Life Hawk

    In my case, most of my past white relatives got to build the railroads… better than starving to death looking for potatoes. :yes:

    White Irish are always a problem when people go looking for color to be the main issue of race.

    Guess I'll need to start burning buildings down and shooting small children and police officers before people wake up and listen to my problem of being white. A lot of white bodies buried around those rail road lines. 😡

    The agenda likes to forget we were indentured servants and treated worse than slaves. After all, slaves were very expensive and people take care of expensive possessions.
    Does anyone really think the average black American gives a rat's ass about climate change or gay marriage? Especially gay marriage.:D

  91. Life Hawk

    In my case, most of my past white relatives got to build the railroads… better than starving to death looking for potatoes. :yes:

    White Irish are always a problem when people go looking for color to be the main issue of race.

    Guess I'll need to start burning buildings down and shooting small children and police officers before people wake up and listen to my problem of being white. A lot of white bodies buried around those rail road lines. 😡

    Well, you ought to at least go demolish the Notre Dame stadium in South Bend.
    View attachment 6396

  92. Tothetop

    @shonceman your comment reflects poor taste, is misguided, and saddens me that in 2020 you think like this and I must address it.

    So here it goes – How dare you shake your head at the idea of being a Cardinals fan and MOST IMPORTANTLY hating the Cowboys?!

    Well, I’ve heard that “cowboy” started out as a racist term for black ranch hands. I don’t think anybody can prove that true or false, but it’s out there. So, maybe I shouldn’t be too vocal about being a Cowboys fan!:twitchy:

  93. PA Bill

    The agenda likes to forget we were indentured servants

    My greatest fear is that the "agenda" doesn't know their history enough to fully understand what you just stated.

    I watch and listen to supposed educated people who lack sorely in the area of historical context. They do not have a firm understanding of history as a whole, therefore are unable to make rational, educated decisions as to what is truth and what is believed to be true. Emotionally base decisions are some poorest ones made.

    I guess you could refer to the way in which Hitler emotionally charged the people of his day to rise up against the government and take control so that meaningful change could take place. And change did take place… and the impact of its meaning is very well known.

    Forgetting history, ignoring history, or rejecting history… is a good way to repeat history.

    Ask the Russian communists how many bodies did it take before they realized that as bad as the Czar was, at least he let them live.

    Ask the more than 60 million Chinese that died as communism swept across their own land if they felt like change was important, and pulling down of the old guard was worth the blood that runs in the streets to this day.

    Your own history is worth knowing… World history is must if we are to survive not making the mistakes of the past.

  94. Tothetop

    Read the autobiography of Frederick Douglas. Its a small book. I have it in my library. That book alone will show you why the U.S. is condemned the most.

    Which one? He wrote several.. If you are talking about? If you are talking about "A Narrative of the Life….. " I have read it and your point is? …. BTW, it is Frederick Douglass…. not Douglas.

  95. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This thread has EVERYTHING to do with blacks.
    Blacks DO seem to have an on-going problem they can't seem to fix.
    That problem IS impacting everyone.
    Rioters DO look like chimps.
    Mitch McConnell DOES look like a turtle.
    Mayor Lightfoot DOES look like ET's mom.
    Sheila Jackson Lee DOES look like a gorilla (seems like she tries to).
    I'm more than willing to be labeled "racist" if that's a result of stating facts.

    Your perceived facts. Fortunately, you are a minority.

  96. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    Well, that response is tantamount to, "I don't like what you're saying but I'm unable to offer specifics regarding the issues I have."

    Why not offer substance instead? Do you deny that SJL looks like a gorilla or was my Mitch McConnell insult the one that makes me a bigot?

    Whatever you do, don't label me a bigot or racist. It might hurt my feelings so bad I may need to seek counseling. It's not like I've been hearing it all my life despite all the kindness I've shown to minorities.

    Personally I prefer you show what you really are.

  97. shonceman

    Well, I’ve heard that “cowboy” started out as a racist term for black ranch hands. I don’t think anybody can prove that true or false, but it’s out there. So, maybe I shouldn’t be too vocal about being a Cowboys fan!:twitchy:

    That and the fact that simply put, you're a Cowboys fan…

    Lol I'm just messing with you

  98. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    Mayor Lightfoot DOES look like ET's mom.

    Not sure who she looks like, but as someone from her state, that poor woman needs to step aside and let someone who knows what they are doing step in. I am tired of seeing little children shot in Chicago.

    They are more worried about the stupid census up there than they are about the babies they have sworn to protect. Talk about a soap box that I will climb up on every time, that is one. I'm weary of people talking, talking, talking, while little ones are being shot…

  99. Life Hawk

    You very funny man

    you only know me from on-line, so a bit pre-sumptuous for you to force your beliefs on me & assign a pro-noun without my advance permission in regard to how I choose to identify. it is 2020, not 1400, so I can choose different pro-nouns in real life or on-line life………………….

  100. rousemark

    Which one? He wrote several.. If you are talking about? If you are talking about "A Narrative of the Life….. " I have read it and your point is? …. BTW, it is Frederick Douglass…. not Douglas.

    I'm not trying to question your intelligence as it seems you are offended. You asked a question and you were given an answer.

    If you read that and you still don't know why the U.S. is continually faulted then you should go back and read it again.

  101. Allen Trent

    you only know me from on-line, so a bit pre-sumptuous for you to force your beliefs on me & assign a pro-noun without my advance permission in regard to how I choose to identify. it is 2020, not 1400, so I can choose different pro-nouns in real life or on-line life………………….

    This is very true… let me introduce myself as the agent with the best hair on the forum. :laugh:;)

  102. W

    WinoBlues

    Were you born a dick or raised as one?

    Who told the protesters to "keep protesting"? After all his family is safe and surrounded by a small army. Meanwhile, blacks keep resisting and getting killed..
    That's right, a dumb motherfvcker named Barack Obama.:yes:

  103. Tothetop

    I'm not trying to question your intelligence as it seems you are offended. You asked a question and you were given an answer.

    If you read that and you still don't know why the U.S. is continually faulted then you should go back and read it again.

    I wasn't given an answer.. However, I do not question why the US is continually faulted for some of its horrible past, I question why the US is the only one even though many others have similar pasts.

    Speaking of Frederick Douglas, read his speech about the fourth of July and asks yourself if he would approve of the acts of those today to discredit the founding fathers. Don't stop with his comments about the hypocrisy of a nation founded on the equality of all men and then indulging in slavery but continue on to how he considers the founders to be honorable, brave men worthy of respect.

    BTW, I don't think a man that reconciled with his former owner, to great criticism from many, would condone the idea that people that had no involvement in what took place being held responsible for it today.

    Those that seek to destroy this nation give no credit for the great progress that has been made since 1860.

  104. PA Bill

    W

    Who told the protesters to "keep protesting"? After all his family is safe and surrounded by a small army. Meanwhile, blacks keep resisting and getting killed..
    That's right, a dumb motherfvcker named Barack Obama.:yes:

    What?

    I realize we are not on the same page however, I question if we are even reading the same book.

  105. WinoBlues

    Were you born a dick or raised as one?

    lol, he already said the blacks & muslims love him cause they get along in his neighborhood.

    WinoBlues

    What?

    I realize we are not on the same page however, I question if we are even reading the same book.

    I am guessing he also has the facebook open, maybe some local new sites & might be responding to other online fights about the ungrateful negroes & queers. I think he just posted a wrong wrong response to you that was intended on another platform………………….lol nearly spit my drink out while reading both of your last 2 comments to him

  106. rousemark

    I wasn't given an answer.. However, I do not question why the US is continually faulted for some of its horrible past, I question why the US is the only one even though many others have similar pasts.

    Speaking of Frederick Douglas, read his speech about the fourth of July and asks yourself if he would approve of the acts of those today to discredit the founding fathers. Don't stop with his comments about the hypocrisy of a nation founded on the equality of all men and then indulging in slavery but continue on to how he considers the founders to be honorable, brave men worthy of respect.

    BTW, I don't think a man that reconciled with his former owner, to great criticism from many, would condone the idea that people that had no involvement in what took place being held responsible for it today.

    Those that seek to destroy this nation give no credit for the great progress that has been made since 1860.

    Lets be concise for a second. You asked this question: "why the US is the only one even though many others have similar pasts. "

    You were given an answer – "go read the book that is why he U.S. is condemned the most." It is the ugliness of American slavery that has made it the chairman of historical slavery.

    What you are describing happening in Africa is tribes selling other tribes that fought in war and was captured.

    America is a nation, not a tribe, that built itself on the backs of a race of people by keeping them and treating them as brutes – which you should know since you read the book.

    Everything else you mentioned is off topic from the question you asked and the answer you were given.

  107. @rousemark you can be a great father and a deadbeat husband all at the same time. Therefore, I will ask you why is it hard for you to reconcile the thought that America is a great country with the idea that it has an ugly and horrendous past and still has some problems here and there today?

    Also, has some black person knocked on your door and ask you to apologize for being white? Has any of your black insurance clients ask you to apologize for your "privilege?"

    If not I cant really understand why you are so upset about stuff you see on the news that has had absolutely no affect on your life

  108. WinoBlues

    Is there context to this or is it a catch-all phrase?

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

  109. WinoBlues

    Is there context to this or is it a catch-all phrase?

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

  110. WinoBlues

    Is there context to this or is it a catch-all phrase?

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

  111. PA Bill

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

    I wise person once told me, "You can't teach class. One either has it, or they don't."

  112. PA Bill

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

    I wise person once told me, "You can't teach class. One either has it, or they don't."

  113. PA Bill

    It's disingenuous. Remember Roots on TV? It depicted whites jumping out of ships and catching Africans in nets like Cheetahs. Complete bullshit. They were bought fair and square from their fellow Africans. Alex Haley knew this.
    Why did he lie like that?:skeptical:

    I wise person once told me, "You can't teach class. One either has it, or they don't."

  114. WinoBlues

    Your perceived facts. Fortunately, you are a minority.

    Why not take the opportunity to set me straight? Which fact(s) is wrong and how so? Jon Stewart agrees with me about Mitch McConnell. I've never had anyone deny the validity of my SJL observation.

    WinoBlues

    Personally I prefer you show what you really are.

    Me too. That's why I like this forum. I haven't experienced any censorship yet. I don't get people who want the moderators to squelch ideas, no matter how ridiculous they may seem.

    Life Hawk

    Not sure who she looks like, but as someone from her state, that poor woman needs to step aside and let someone who knows what they are doing step in. I am tired of seeing little children shot in Chicago.

    They are more worried about the stupid census up there than they are about the babies they have sworn to protect. Talk about a soap box that I will climb up on every time, that is one. I'm weary of people talking, talking, talking, while little ones are being shot…

    She looks like ET's mom. Al Sharpton looks like a bobblehead.

    Elliot Ness was sent into Chicago to stop Capone's violence. I wonder if he racked up as many murders as they're currently experiencing in Chi Town.

    Tothetop

    Lets be concise for a second. You asked this question: "why the US is the only one even though many others have similar pasts. "

    You were given an answer – "go read the book that is why he U.S. is condemned the most." It is the ugliness of American slavery that has made it the chairman of historical slavery.

    What you are describing happening in Africa is tribes selling other tribes that fought in war and was captured.

    America is a nation, not a tribe, that built itself on the backs of a race of people by keeping them and treating them as brutes – which you should know since you read the book.

    Everything else you mentioned is off topic from the question you asked and the answer you were given.

    Wasn't the slave trade started and managed by Europeans for the first few hundred years? There are your racists! Sic em!

  115. shonceman

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

    In honor of your Navajo stepfather, this is the logo for an Arizona High School and most of the students are Navajo.

  116. Tothetop

    @rousemark you can be a great father and a deadbeat husband all at the same time. Therefore, I will ask you why is it hard for you to reconcile the thought that America is a great country with the idea that it has an ugly and horrendous past and still has some problems here and there today?

    Also, has some black person knocked on your door and ask you to apologize for being white? Has any of your black insurance clients ask you to apologize for your "privilege?"

    If not I cant really understand why you are so upset about stuff you see on the news that has had absolutely no affect on your life

    Exactly… I really cannot understand why people are so upset over something that happened 150+ years ago that has not had any effect on their lives.

  117. Lawsonhj1

    In honor of your Navajo stepfather, this is the logo for an Arizona High School and most of the students are Navajo.

    That’s cool! I wasn’t aware of that. Map shows it’s in the Four Corners area. Navajo people are the majority of the population in that part of the state.

  118. Lawsonhj1

    In honor of your Navajo stepfather, this is the logo for an Arizona High School and most of the students are Navajo.

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

  119. Lawsonhj1

    In honor of your Navajo stepfather, this is the logo for an Arizona High School and most of the students are Navajo.

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

  120. Lawsonhj1

    In honor of your Navajo stepfather, this is the logo for an Arizona High School and most of the students are Navajo.

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

  121. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    If they ever open up the reservations to life long guest I would certainly choose the Fort Apache Reservation especially if I could select my own lodging place. Arizona has some beautiful high mountain areas problem is someone might relax to much on the rez. They can call me whitey no problem as long as we get along I probably still wouldn't call anyone the "R" word.

  122. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    If they ever open up the reservations to life long guest I would certainly choose the Fort Apache Reservation especially if I could select my own lodging place. Arizona has some beautiful high mountain areas problem is someone might relax to much on the rez. They can call me whitey no problem as long as we get along I probably still wouldn't call anyone the "R" word.

  123. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    If they ever open up the reservations to life long guest I would certainly choose the Fort Apache Reservation especially if I could select my own lodging place. Arizona has some beautiful high mountain areas problem is someone might relax to much on the rez. They can call me whitey no problem as long as we get along I probably still wouldn't call anyone the "R" word.

  124. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    The sad state of many that live on the reservations is what happens when you make a population that is dependent upon government subsidies. If the white man is to be blamed for the state of the American Indian and the inner city blacks, it is not what happened 150 years ago but what has happened in the last few decades and continues today. But, the rioters are not railing against this.

  125. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    The sad state of many that live on the reservations is what happens when you make a population that is dependent upon government subsidies. If the white man is to be blamed for the state of the American Indian and the inner city blacks, it is not what happened 150 years ago but what has happened in the last few decades and continues today. But, the rioters are not railing against this.

  126. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    This implies it's like the N word, in that the user must meet racial criteria or else is racist for even thinking it.

    I've heard no one dispute that nearly all Native Americans have no problem with "Indian" themed logos and nicknames. That's one of the things I've always admired about the American aboriginal, their reputation for being tough and brave. I've never thought of them as being easily offended. I'm also amazed at what they could do without the benefit of a wheel or metals. I wish those on the reservations would find better lives.

    The sad state of many that live on the reservations is what happens when you make a population that is dependent upon government subsidies. If the white man is to be blamed for the state of the American Indian and the inner city blacks, it is not what happened 150 years ago but what has happened in the last few decades and continues today. But, the rioters are not railing against this.

  127. rousemark

    Exactly… I really cannot understand why people are so upset over something that happened 150+ years ago that has not had any effect on their lives.

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

  128. rousemark

    Exactly… I really cannot understand why people are so upset over something that happened 150+ years ago that has not had any effect on their lives.

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

  129. rousemark

    Exactly… I really cannot understand why people are so upset over something that happened 150+ years ago that has not had any effect on their lives.

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

  130. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    .

    BAM!!!

  131. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    .

    BAM!!!

  132. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    .

    BAM!!!

  133. Tothetop

    Oops I made some typos. It's ok @rousemark will be around to fix them because he has nothing else to say besides play the victim card about America and the white man being blamed.

    Whites ARE being blamed based on a huge assumption.

    How confident are you that Chauvin wouldn't have treated me the same way he treated Floyd, all things being equal except I remain white in this scenario?

    How confident are you that the Atlanta cop didn't behave better than you or I under the exact circumstances when he shot the guy shooting the taser toward him?

    There's been a lot of destruction and children have been gunned down based on assumptions at best, lies at worst.

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

  134. Tothetop

    Oops I made some typos. It's ok @rousemark will be around to fix them because he has nothing else to say besides play the victim card about America and the white man being blamed.

    Whites ARE being blamed based on a huge assumption.

    How confident are you that Chauvin wouldn't have treated me the same way he treated Floyd, all things being equal except I remain white in this scenario?

    How confident are you that the Atlanta cop didn't behave better than you or I under the exact circumstances when he shot the guy shooting the taser toward him?

    There's been a lot of destruction and children have been gunned down based on assumptions at best, lies at worst.

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

  135. Tothetop

    Oops I made some typos. It's ok @rousemark will be around to fix them because he has nothing else to say besides play the victim card about America and the white man being blamed.

    Whites ARE being blamed based on a huge assumption.

    How confident are you that Chauvin wouldn't have treated me the same way he treated Floyd, all things being equal except I remain white in this scenario?

    How confident are you that the Atlanta cop didn't behave better than you or I under the exact circumstances when he shot the guy shooting the taser toward him?

    There's been a lot of destruction and children have been gunned down based on assumptions at best, lies at worst.

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

  136. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

    Has no effect on my life today? These statements and events did not take place years ago.

    BLM-Branded 'Kill a White on Sight' Posters Found in Scotland

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/kill…ck-lives-matter-graffiti-amanda-prestigiacomo

    Black Lives Matter co-founder appears to label white people ‘defects’

    Black Lives Matter Leader Now Says White People's Churches 'Should All Come Down' ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

    It is not me saying to kill anyone on the basis of their race. It is not me claiming that one race is inferior to another.. It is not me claiming a place of worship should be destroyed because of the race of people that meet there. It is not me on here arguing on behalf of people who think and talk that way.

  137. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

    Has no effect on my life today? These statements and events did not take place years ago.

    BLM-Branded 'Kill a White on Sight' Posters Found in Scotland

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/kill…ck-lives-matter-graffiti-amanda-prestigiacomo

    Black Lives Matter co-founder appears to label white people ‘defects’

    Black Lives Matter Leader Now Says White People's Churches 'Should All Come Down' ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

    It is not me saying to kill anyone on the basis of their race. It is not me claiming that one race is inferior to another.. It is not me claiming a place of worship should be destroyed because of the race of people that meet there. It is not me on here arguing on behalf of people who think and talk that way.

  138. Tothetop

    You are so bent on arguing that you are coming across short in your understanding and limited in your knowledge of history and current events.

    Lets do this, you stop whining first. Set the example. Cuz all I see and hear you doing is whining, you and many others.

    They are complaining about events 150 years ago that according to you has no affect on their lives and you are complaining about events today that clearly have no affect on your life.

    Your in the same boat as them.

    Has no effect on my life today? These statements and events did not take place years ago.

    BLM-Branded 'Kill a White on Sight' Posters Found in Scotland

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/kill…ck-lives-matter-graffiti-amanda-prestigiacomo

    Black Lives Matter co-founder appears to label white people ‘defects’

    Black Lives Matter Leader Now Says White People's Churches 'Should All Come Down' ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

    It is not me saying to kill anyone on the basis of their race. It is not me claiming that one race is inferior to another.. It is not me claiming a place of worship should be destroyed because of the race of people that meet there. It is not me on here arguing on behalf of people who think and talk that way.

  139. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

  140. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

  141. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    I don't know any white person who isn't willing to oppose injustice, especially racial injustice. But, that's no reason to manufacture it.

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

  142. Tothetop

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

    Are you not reading all my comments?! I specifically recall stating that IT DOES seem like blacks have an ongoing problem they seem unable to fix. Can we talk? I wish it would improve. What might I do to help? If your premise is that many whites are racist and that's where the problems lies, I'm afraid I can't help you…….unless you put me in touch with those racists. Then, I'll be more than happy to talk some sense into them.

  143. Tothetop

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

    Are you not reading all my comments?! I specifically recall stating that IT DOES seem like blacks have an ongoing problem they seem unable to fix. Can we talk? I wish it would improve. What might I do to help? If your premise is that many whites are racist and that's where the problems lies, I'm afraid I can't help you…….unless you put me in touch with those racists. Then, I'll be more than happy to talk some sense into them.

  144. Tothetop

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

    Are you not reading all my comments?! I specifically recall stating that IT DOES seem like blacks have an ongoing problem they seem unable to fix. Can we talk? I wish it would improve. What might I do to help? If your premise is that many whites are racist and that's where the problems lies, I'm afraid I can't help you…….unless you put me in touch with those racists. Then, I'll be more than happy to talk some sense into them.

  145. Tothetop

    Really? Because I didn't hear you say much when PA Bill was talking out his neck saying "just like the blacks, you cant fix stupid."

    As a matter of fact, I saw very few folks that participated in this thread come and speak up. This is not to say that they should have spoken up as it is their prerogative.

    I just say that to say I wouldn't be so confident in saying that.

    Are you not reading all my comments?! I specifically recall stating that IT DOES seem like blacks have an ongoing problem they seem unable to fix. Can we talk? I wish it would improve. What might I do to help? If your premise is that many whites are racist and that's where the problems lies, I'm afraid I can't help you…….unless you put me in touch with those racists. Then, I'll be more than happy to talk some sense into them.

  146. rousemark

    Has no effect on my life today? These statements and events did not take place years ago.

    BLM-Branded 'Kill a White on Sight' Posters Found in Scotland

    ‘Kill White People,’ ‘Black Lives Matter’ Graffiti Hits Florida Businesses, Homes And Donald Trump Signs

    Black Lives Matter co-founder appears to label white people ‘defects’

    Black Lives Matter Leader Now Says White People's Churches 'Should All Come Down' ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

    It is not me saying to kill anyone on the basis of their race. It is not me claiming that one race is inferior to another.. It is not me claiming a place of worship should be destroyed because of the race of people that meet there. It is not me on here arguing on behalf of people who think and talk that way.

    Guess what, 50 years ago the shoe was on the other foot for blacks in the south. But its not a big deal because according to your logic the people of today did not experience that. So based on your logic, stop whining because you are not experiencing it. You are just posting articles about stuff that has not impacted you.

    To be honest, I never once supported BLM as an organization but your bias would have you believe that anyone who understands the history of injustice in America is a BLM organization supporter.

  147. Tothetop

    Guess what, 50 years ago the shoe was on the other foot for blacks in the south. But its not a big deal because according to your logic the people of today did not experience that. So based on your logic, stop whining because you are not experiencing it. You are just posting articles about stuff that has not impacted you.

    To be honest. I never once supported BLM as an organization but your bias would have you believe that anyone who understands the history of injustice in America is a BLM organization supporter.

    No, your bias prevents you from acknowledging the true facts about the history of discrimination in America. I was around 50 years ago and I saw the discrimination that took place.. It was right then but it does not justify "putting the shoe on the other foot" now. I have tried to speak an opinion in generalities not attacking anyone on a personal basis. You, on the other hand want to ascribe your preconceived ideas of what a white person in the south should think and then color what I say to match your bias.

    If someone is saying I should die… I think that impacts me.

  148. rousemark

    No, your bias prevents you from acknowledging the true facts about the history of discrimination in America. I was around 50 years ago and I saw the discrimination that took place.. It was right then but it does not justify "putting the shoe on the other foot" now. I have tried to speak an opinion in generalities not attacking anyone on a personal basis. You, on the other hand want to ascribe your preconceived ideas of what a white person in the south should think and then color what I say to match your bias.

    If someone is saying I should die… I think that impacts me.

    Again, I never justified what they were saying, never attacked anyone, never did any of these things you are stating. This thread was never about BLM and to be honest I personally dont want to turn in it into one.

    You asked why are people condemning the US the most and I gave you an answer.

    Here's a fix, since you feel impacted by what they are saying, allow others the freedom to state from their experience what has or is impacting them.

    You feel threatened today and for many of them they have felt threatened everyday walking in their skin.

    Actually, they and their ancestors have felt threatened for years in America walking in their skin

  149. rousemark

    Has no effect on my life today? These statements and events did not take place years ago.

    BLM-Branded 'Kill a White on Sight' Posters Found in Scotland

    ‘Kill White People,’ ‘Black Lives Matter’ Graffiti Hits Florida Businesses, Homes And Donald Trump Signs

    Black Lives Matter co-founder appears to label white people ‘defects’

    Black Lives Matter Leader Now Says White People's Churches 'Should All Come Down' ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

    It is not me saying to kill anyone on the basis of their race. It is not me claiming that one race is inferior to another.. It is not me claiming a place of worship should be destroyed because of the race of people that meet there. It is not me on here arguing on behalf of people who think and talk that way.

    I saw something on the looky box the other night about white supremers in Europe. Seriously, if you're looking for racists…..try Canada too.

  150. Tothetop

    Again, I never justified what they were saying, never attacked anyone, never did any of these things you are stating. This thread was never about BLM and to be honest I personally dont want to turn in it into one.

    You asked why are people condemning the US the most and I gave you an answer.

    Here's a fix, since you feel impacted by what they are saying, allow others the freedom to state from their experience what has or is impacting them.

    You feel threatened today and for many of them they have felt threatened everyday walking in their skin.

    Actually, they and their ancestors have felt threatened for years in America walking in their skin

    I can relate. I've been the only white among blacks a few times. You get the sense that you wouldn't get a fair shake if things went south. I guess it's all part of being a minority. Let's hope the Hispanics prove gracious.

  151. Tothetop

    @rousemark

    Again, I never justified what they were saying, never attacked anyone, never did any of these things you are stating. This thread was never about BLM and to be honest I personally dont want to turn in it into one.

    You asked why are people condemning the US the most and I gave you an answer.

    Here's a fix, since you feel impacted by what they are saying allow others the freedom to state from their experience what has or is impacting them.

    You feel threatened today and for many of them they have felt threatened everyday walking in their skin.

    Actually, they and their ancestors have felt threatened for years in America walking in their skin

    I am not denying any one the opportunity to speak.. But, I don't think they have the right to riot, burn maim and kill. And, I am well aware of the fact that I have never experience DWB (Driving While Black). And, I hope the day soon comes that no longer occurs..

    Again, you didn't answer my question.. You told me to read a book and then form an opinion. I have read the book you suggested and it does not answer the question. So, if you have an answer, I will read it in the morning if you choose to share it. I will say from what I have read of Mr. Douglass, I do not think he would be involved as a leader in what is going on today.

  152. rousemark

    I am not denying any one the opportunity to speak.. But, I don't think they have the right to riot, burn maim and kill.

    You and me both. But make sure you clearly see who "they" are.

    rousemark

    And, I am well aware of the fact that I have never experience DWB (Driving While Black). And, I hope the day soon comes that no longer occurs..

    You and me both.

    rousemark

    Again, you didn't answer my question.. You told me to read a book and then form an opinion. I have read the book you suggested and it does not answer the question. So, if you have an answer, I will read it in the morning if you choose to share it. I will say from what I have read of Mr. Douglass, I do not think he would be involved as a leader in what is going on today.

    I'm not telling you to form an opinion. I'm telling you to read to learn first hand experience and history to see how atrocious institutionalized slavery was in America. In regards to Mr. Douglass, I agree with you but I definitely believe he would understand why some people feel the way they do

  153. Lawsonhj1

    Check out what year Ethiopia and Nigeria ended slavery it is kind of interesting.

    This from Wikipedia:
    In the 21st Century, almost every country has legally abolished chattel slavery, but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.

    Since the 2014 Civil War in Libya, and the subsequent breakdown of law and order, there have been reports of enslaved migrants being sold in public, open slave markets in the country.[17]

    Mauritania has a long history with slavery. Chattel slavery was formally made illegal in the country but the laws against it have gone largely unenforced. It is estimated that around 90,000 people (over 2% of Mauritania's population) are slaves.

  154. Tothetop

    You and me both. But make sure you clearly see who "they" are.

    You and me both.

    I'm not telling you to form an opinion. I'm telling you to read to learn first hand experience and history to see how atrocious institutionalized slavery was in America. In regards to Mr. Douglass, I agree with you but I definitely believe he would understand why some people feel the way they do

    I was not offended by the other remark you made that you thought offended me. But I am offended by the idea that you think I am not aware of how atrocious institutionalized slavery was. I am not a believer in the benevolent master idea of slavery in this country. Some masters may have treated their slaves better than others but they still held them enslaved. BTW, free blacks and the American Indians owned black slaves and as a rule they treated them no better (or worse) than white owners proving that slavery and its horrors is not an issue of race.. I am going to let you have the last word in this conversation.. My you be richly blessed in life..

  155. rousemark

    I was not offended by the other remark you made that you thought offended me. But I am offended by the idea that you think I am not aware of how atrocious institutionalized slavery was. I am not a believer in the benevolent master idea of slavery in this country. Some masters may have treated their slaves better than others but they still held them enslaved. BTW, free blacks and the American Indians owned black slaves and as a rule they treated them no better (or worse) than white owners proving that slavery and its horrors is not an issue of race.. I am going to let you have the last word in this conversation.. My you be richly blessed in life..

    My last word will be you be blessed as well.

  156. fed up

    And just about EVERY poll taken by the Washington Football Organization at gatherings of or Reservations of Native Americans found that the majority took no offense to the name or logo. This has been going on for years and each time a group tried to show that there was general displeasure to the logo or name the results came back the same. There has been a very vocal minority of people in the DC area who have told everyone that they SHOULD be offended and if they aren't offended they are wrong. And I still have no idea what woke means outside of sleep

    shonceman

    Whatever, man. Then don’t take their word for it. I’m just pointing out that not all Native Americans feel offended by logos. It’s a mistake I’ve often observed by people on the left (especially young white SJW types), to say something like “Native Americans think….”, or “African Americans believe…”, etc., as though people within groups all think in a homogenous fashion. For example, my stepfather is 100% Navajo and has never found the Redskins logo to be offensive. (He’s a HUGE Cardinals fan, though, and hates the Cowboys! He’s from Arizona, though, so what can I say?:no:)

    I dont disagree that some Native Americans do not find it offensive. But a majority do. Every poll taken "for the team" was exactly that… for the team. Academic and scientific experts who specialize in polling methods have found huge flaws in these so called polls and studies. The Washington Post poll for instance surveyed 500 people who "identify as native american"… not who they certified were native american… any Elizabeth Warren could have responded to that poll…

    Polls taken among true native americans are usually split, or slightly in majority of it being offensive. But if you look at demographics under the age of 60, and those who strongly identify as native american, it is a true majority that feel its offensive.

    There are a lot of articles out there detailing the issues in those so called studies claiming 90% feel its ok. Wikipedia isnt a bad starting point: Washington Redskins name opinion polls – Wikipedia

  157. rousemark

    Every nation on this earth has a history of slavery. Why is it only the US criticized for it? I do not know that I had any ancestors that owned slaves. I do know I had ancestors that fought for the north as well as some that fought for the south. Why are all whites being held accountable for slavery? Even those that fought to end it? This garbage is nothing more than an attempt to prolong the victimhood of people.

    Well, as a person who has never owned a slave, I do not feel I owe anything.. reparations, apologies or anything else.. to a person who has never been a slave.

    Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but equal rights have only existed for about 50 years.

    (you are way too old to not recognize that fact, you saw it with your own eyes)

    Here in the US, we concentrate on US slavery, because we live in the US.

    Its our history. We have no control over other countries, nor are we responsible for their actions. We are responsible for our own actions, so that is the conversation here in the US.

    And other countries certainly have had and still have issues and conversation surrounding their role in slavery. It doesnt make US news often because well… its not US news…

    BTW, saying "other countries did it or still do it" does not make it ok. Saying "that guy killed someone" does not make it ok for you to kill someone. Your constant comparisons to other countries that did it to justify our actions lack logic and morals.

    Are you part of this country? The country as a whole is responsible for those actions. Not any one individual. Nobody is asking you personally to apologize or to be held accountable. Its not even about "white people" being held accountable.

    Its about the Country holding ourselves accountable for past moral wrongs.

    More than that, its about our Country actually abiding by our Laws and Constitution.

    The ideals this country was founded on are what make this country great… the failure to carry out those ideals for all human beings, is this country's greatest failure.

    rousemark

    You need to study your history a little more about how many of the folks who eventually settled in the mountains came here,

    I have studied it. I know that "mountain folk" (greater appalachia) mainly hailed from N. Ireland and N. England and S. Scotland. Most came here escaping perpetual war… a small minority came here escaping religious persecution. Neither group were escaping a genocide or chattel slavery.

    History will also teach you the vast majority of Appalachia fought for the Union (aka, the United States). The majority did not support slavery nor did they support Treason.

    Many who did fight for the South from Appalachia did so out of fear of "black rebellion" which was the major form of fear mongering from the oligarch slave owners who controlled everything in the south, especially the press. (this has been documented by many historians via soldiers journals and letters from the time)

  158. scagnt83

    Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but equal rights have only existed for about 50 years.

    (you are way too old to not recognize that fact, you saw it with your own eyes)

    Here in the US, we concentrate on US slavery, because we live in the US.

    Its our history. We have no control over other countries, nor are we responsible for their actions. We are responsible for our own actions, so that is the conversation here in the US.

    And other countries certainly have had and still have issues and conversation surrounding their role in slavery. It doesnt make US news often because well… its not US news…

    BTW, saying "other countries did it or still do it" does not make it ok. Saying "that guy killed someone" does not make it ok for you to kill someone. Your constant comparisons to other countries that did it to justify our actions lack logic and morals.

    Are you part of this country? The country as a whole is responsible for those actions. Not any one individual. Nobody is asking you personally to apologize or to be held accountable. Its not even about "white people" being held accountable.

    Its about the Country holding ourselves accountable for past moral wrongs.

    More than that, its about our Country actually abiding by our Laws and Constitution.

    The ideals this country was founded on are what make this country great… the failure to carry out those ideals for all human beings, is this country's greatest failure.

    I have studied it. I know that "mountain folk" (greater appalachia) mainly hailed from N. Ireland and N. England and S. Scotland. Most came here escaping perpetual war… a small minority came here escaping religious persecution. Neither group were escaping a genocide or chattel slavery.

    History will also teach you the vast majority of Appalachia fought for the Union (aka, the United States). The majority did not support slavery nor did they support Treason.

    Many who did fight for the South from Appalachia did so out of fear of "black rebellion" which was the major form of fear mongering from the oligarch slave owners who controlled everything in the south, especially the press. (this has been documented by many historians via soldiers journals and letters from the time)

    Could not have said it any better. If you cant understand these clear and concise points its because you choose to be blatantly obstinate due to personal biases.

  159. scagnt83

    Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but equal rights have only existed for about 50 years.

    (you are way too old to not recognize that fact, you saw it with your own eyes)

    Here in the US, we concentrate on US slavery, because we live in the US.

    Its our history. We have no control over other countries, nor are we responsible for their actions. We are responsible for our own actions, so that is the conversation here in the US.

    And other countries certainly have had and still have issues and conversation surrounding their role in slavery. It doesnt make US news often because well… its not US news…

    BTW, saying "other countries did it or still do it" does not make it ok. Saying "that guy killed someone" does not make it ok for you to kill someone. Your constant comparisons to other countries that did it to justify our actions lack logic and morals.

    Are you part of this country? The country as a whole is responsible for those actions. Not any one individual. Nobody is asking you personally to apologize or to be held accountable. Its not even about "white people" being held accountable.

    Its about the Country holding ourselves accountable for past moral wrongs.

    More than that, its about our Country actually abiding by our Laws and Constitution.

    The ideals this country was founded on are what make this country great… the failure to carry out those ideals for all human beings, is this country's greatest failure.

    I have studied it. I know that "mountain folk" (greater appalachia) mainly hailed from N. Ireland and N. England and S. Scotland. Most came here escaping perpetual war… a small minority came here escaping religious persecution. Neither group were escaping a genocide or chattel slavery.

    History will also teach you the vast majority of Appalachia fought for the Union (aka, the United States). The majority did not support slavery nor did they support Treason.

    Many who did fight for the South from Appalachia did so out of fear of "black rebellion" which was the major form of fear mongering from the oligarch slave owners who controlled everything in the south, especially the press. (this has been documented by many historians via soldiers journals and letters from the time)

    So, reparations is the answer? What's the solution? What would you have this white boy do?
    Whites have been caricatured too.

    There's no shortage of ridicule for rednecks and hillbillies.
    Your comments read as though The US is in danger of re-instituting slavery. I'd fight against that but I'm totally in favor of bringing back the indentured servant program.

  160. scagnt83

    Slavery ended 150+ years ago, but equal rights have only existed for about 50 years.

    (you are way too old to not recognize that fact, you saw it with your own eyes)

    Here in the US, we concentrate on US slavery, because we live in the US.

    Its our history. We have no control over other countries, nor are we responsible for their actions. We are responsible for our own actions, so that is the conversation here in the US.

    And other countries certainly have had and still have issues and conversation surrounding their role in slavery. It doesnt make US news often because well… its not US news…

    BTW, saying "other countries did it or still do it" does not make it ok. Saying "that guy killed someone" does not make it ok for you to kill someone. Your constant comparisons to other countries that did it to justify our actions lack logic and morals.

    Are you part of this country? The country as a whole is responsible for those actions. Not any one individual. Nobody is asking you personally to apologize or to be held accountable. Its not even about "white people" being held accountable.

    Its about the Country holding ourselves accountable for past moral wrongs.

    More than that, its about our Country actually abiding by our Laws and Constitution.

    The ideals this country was founded on are what make this country great… the failure to carry out those ideals for all human beings, is this country's greatest failure.

    I have studied it. I know that "mountain folk" (greater appalachia) mainly hailed from N. Ireland and N. England and S. Scotland. Most came here escaping perpetual war… a small minority came here escaping religious persecution. Neither group were escaping a genocide or chattel slavery.

    History will also teach you the vast majority of Appalachia fought for the Union (aka, the United States). The majority did not support slavery nor did they support Treason.

    Many who did fight for the South from Appalachia did so out of fear of "black rebellion" which was the major form of fear mongering from the oligarch slave owners who controlled everything in the south, especially the press. (this has been documented by many historians via soldiers journals and letters from the time)

    You and others keep ascribing motives to me that are incorrect. I am not claiming that the fact "others do it" somehow makes it right that we did it. I am simply questioning why people do not take a stand against all slavery not just what occurred here. Yes, I am well aware of segregated America. I remember the "colored" drinking fountains, restrooms, waiting rooms, etc. I remember "colored" coming to the back door of the restaurant and getting their orders to go. I also remember the so called 'separate but equal" schools. … None of that was right. But that has passed but some seem to give no credit for that. The "average" BLM protestor has not experienced any of that personally.

    A side observation, even as a young kid I asked why it was OK for us to eat food prepared by black hands in a restaurant, but they could not sit beside us and eat a meal. Never made any sense to me.

  161. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    So, reparations is the answer? What's the solution? What would you have this white boy do?
    Whites have been caricatured too.

    There's no shortage of ridicule for rednecks and hillbillies.
    Your comments read as though The US is in danger of re-instituting slavery. I'd fight against that but I'm totally in favor of bringing back the indentured servant program.

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

  162. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    So, reparations is the answer? What's the solution? What would you have this white boy do?
    Whites have been caricatured too.

    There's no shortage of ridicule for rednecks and hillbillies.
    Your comments read as though The US is in danger of re-instituting slavery. I'd fight against that but I'm totally in favor of bringing back the indentured servant program.

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

  163. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    So, reparations is the answer? What's the solution? What would you have this white boy do?
    Whites have been caricatured too.

    There's no shortage of ridicule for rednecks and hillbillies.
    Your comments read as though The US is in danger of re-instituting slavery. I'd fight against that but I'm totally in favor of bringing back the indentured servant program.

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

  164. I think you all are missing the forest because of a tree…

    Slavery has never ended.
    All colors have and are being in slaved.
    It's a world problem.
    Sex trafficking is the on the rise world wide… and here in the USA.
    Who is pleading their case?

    We argue the past and we aren't even seeing the present.

  165. I think you all are missing the forest because of a tree…

    Slavery has never ended.
    All colors have and are being in slaved.
    It's a world problem.
    Sex trafficking is the on the rise world wide… and here in the USA.
    Who is pleading their case?

    We argue the past and we aren't even seeing the present.

  166. I think you all are missing the forest because of a tree…

    Slavery has never ended.
    All colors have and are being in slaved.
    It's a world problem.
    Sex trafficking is the on the rise world wide… and here in the USA.
    Who is pleading their case?

    We argue the past and we aren't even seeing the present.

  167. rousemark

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

    Nope. I'm totally cereal. We've been thru this before. Hop Sing, Cato, Higgins, Jeanie are the arrangements I have in mind. Of course, there would need to be safeguards against abuse.

    Taking advantage is what we all do. If money represents a part of your life (and it does) we all stay busy trying to suck the life from others while preserving our own.

    Having foreigners registered and providing service in exchange for a shot at the American dream beats 12 million illegal residents. It most likely would be a huge opportunity for those foreigners too. Why don't you want to give them opportunity? How dare you!!??

    It's like Mike McConnell taught me decades ago. Sweat shops are a preferable means of survival when the alternatives are worse. If people are so desperate to come here illegally, let's make use of them and have them earn the improvements they seek. It's a win win proposition.

    I say, send me a nice Russian girl to maintain my house and whatnot for 5 years then give her citizenship. She can go to night school after she mows. I prefer brunettes.

  168. rousemark

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

    Nope. I'm totally cereal. We've been thru this before. Hop Sing, Cato, Higgins, Jeanie are the arrangements I have in mind. Of course, there would need to be safeguards against abuse.

    Taking advantage is what we all do. If money represents a part of your life (and it does) we all stay busy trying to suck the life from others while preserving our own.

    Having foreigners registered and providing service in exchange for a shot at the American dream beats 12 million illegal residents. It most likely would be a huge opportunity for those foreigners too. Why don't you want to give them opportunity? How dare you!!??

    It's like Mike McConnell taught me decades ago. Sweat shops are a preferable means of survival when the alternatives are worse. If people are so desperate to come here illegally, let's make use of them and have them earn the improvements they seek. It's a win win proposition.

    I say, send me a nice Russian girl to maintain my house and whatnot for 5 years then give her citizenship. She can go to night school after she mows. I prefer brunettes.

  169. rousemark

    Surely you are kidding? Can you imagine how some of the wealthy would take advantage of someone who was in desperate straits? Slavery is wrong, voluntary or not. In the past many of the indentured servants were treated on a par with the chattel slaves. Don't think it would be any better this time around.

    Nope. I'm totally cereal. We've been thru this before. Hop Sing, Cato, Higgins, Jeanie are the arrangements I have in mind. Of course, there would need to be safeguards against abuse.

    Taking advantage is what we all do. If money represents a part of your life (and it does) we all stay busy trying to suck the life from others while preserving our own.

    Having foreigners registered and providing service in exchange for a shot at the American dream beats 12 million illegal residents. It most likely would be a huge opportunity for those foreigners too. Why don't you want to give them opportunity? How dare you!!??

    It's like Mike McConnell taught me decades ago. Sweat shops are a preferable means of survival when the alternatives are worse. If people are so desperate to come here illegally, let's make use of them and have them earn the improvements they seek. It's a win win proposition.

    I say, send me a nice Russian girl to maintain my house and whatnot for 5 years then give her citizenship. She can go to night school after she mows. I prefer brunettes.

  170. JONATHAN B SPARKS

    Nope. I'm totally cereal. We've been thru this before. Hop Sing, Cato, Higgins, Jeanie are the arrangements I have in mind. Of course, there would need to be safeguards against abuse.

    Taking advantage is what we all do. If money represents a part of your life (and it does) we all stay busy trying to suck the life from others while preserving our own.

    Having foreigners registered and providing service in exchange for a shot at the American dream beats 12 million illegal residents. It most likely would be a huge opportunity for those foreigners too. Why don't you want to give them opportunity? How dare you!!??

    It's like Mike McConnell taught me decades ago. Sweat shops are a preferable means of survival when the alternatives are worse. If people are so desperate to come here illegally, let's make use of them and have them earn the improvements they seek. It's a win win proposition.

    I say, send me a nice Russian girl to maintain my house and whatnot for 5 years then give her citizenship. She can go to night school after she mows. I prefer brunettes.

    You don't have to indenture them to give them opportunity. A green card will do just fine. If you mistreat them, they can quit and go to work for someone else.

  171. scagnt83

    I dont disagree that some Native Americans do not find it offensive. But a majority do. Every poll taken "for the team" was exactly that… for the team. Academic and scientific experts who specialize in polling methods have found huge flaws in these so called polls and studies. The Washington Post poll for instance surveyed 500 people who "identify as native american"… not who they certified were native american… any Elizabeth Warren could have responded to that poll…

    Polls taken among true native americans are usually split, or slightly in majority of it being offensive. But if you look at demographics under the age of 60, and those who strongly identify as native american, it is a true majority that feel its offensive.

    There are a lot of articles out there detailing the issues in those so called studies claiming 90% feel its ok. Wikipedia isnt a bad starting point: Washington Redskins name opinion polls – Wikipedia

    I know polls get skewed (sometimes purposefully so) by both the parameters of the sample as well as the way the questions are phrased. I don’t doubt that many Native Americans are offended by the Washington Redskins branding.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find a range of feeling toward the Redskins from pride on one end of the spectrum, to ambivalence in the middle, and outrage at the other end. As I alluded to previously, the Native American community is not one big homogenous group. Before the US took control of all of the Native lands, there were several hundred nations and cultures with both alliances and enmities among them. The historic experience of the Omaha people is a great example, in that they arrived in Nebraska after being pushed out of the Ohio valley by member groups of the Iroquois confederacy.

    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the Redskins logo is that the branding is somehow supposed to be representative of all North American indigenous people groups. The MOO logo, on the other hand, is tied by the corporate name to just one people group, which leads me back to my original point: Has anyone from MOO asked the Omaha people what they think of the logo?

  172. scagnt83

    I dont disagree that some Native Americans do not find it offensive. But a majority do. Every poll taken "for the team" was exactly that… for the team. Academic and scientific experts who specialize in polling methods have found huge flaws in these so called polls and studies. The Washington Post poll for instance surveyed 500 people who "identify as native american"… not who they certified were native american… any Elizabeth Warren could have responded to that poll…

    Polls taken among true native americans are usually split, or slightly in majority of it being offensive. But if you look at demographics under the age of 60, and those who strongly identify as native american, it is a true majority that feel its offensive.

    There are a lot of articles out there detailing the issues in those so called studies claiming 90% feel its ok. Wikipedia isnt a bad starting point: Washington Redskins name opinion polls – Wikipedia

    I know polls get skewed (sometimes purposefully so) by both the parameters of the sample as well as the way the questions are phrased. I don’t doubt that many Native Americans are offended by the Washington Redskins branding.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find a range of feeling toward the Redskins from pride on one end of the spectrum, to ambivalence in the middle, and outrage at the other end. As I alluded to previously, the Native American community is not one big homogenous group. Before the US took control of all of the Native lands, there were several hundred nations and cultures with both alliances and enmities among them. The historic experience of the Omaha people is a great example, in that they arrived in Nebraska after being pushed out of the Ohio valley by member groups of the Iroquois confederacy.

    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the Redskins logo is that the branding is somehow supposed to be representative of all North American indigenous people groups. The MOO logo, on the other hand, is tied by the corporate name to just one people group, which leads me back to my original point: Has anyone from MOO asked the Omaha people what they think of the logo?

  173. scagnt83

    I dont disagree that some Native Americans do not find it offensive. But a majority do. Every poll taken "for the team" was exactly that… for the team. Academic and scientific experts who specialize in polling methods have found huge flaws in these so called polls and studies. The Washington Post poll for instance surveyed 500 people who "identify as native american"… not who they certified were native american… any Elizabeth Warren could have responded to that poll…

    Polls taken among true native americans are usually split, or slightly in majority of it being offensive. But if you look at demographics under the age of 60, and those who strongly identify as native american, it is a true majority that feel its offensive.

    There are a lot of articles out there detailing the issues in those so called studies claiming 90% feel its ok. Wikipedia isnt a bad starting point: Washington Redskins name opinion polls – Wikipedia

    I know polls get skewed (sometimes purposefully so) by both the parameters of the sample as well as the way the questions are phrased. I don’t doubt that many Native Americans are offended by the Washington Redskins branding.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find a range of feeling toward the Redskins from pride on one end of the spectrum, to ambivalence in the middle, and outrage at the other end. As I alluded to previously, the Native American community is not one big homogenous group. Before the US took control of all of the Native lands, there were several hundred nations and cultures with both alliances and enmities among them. The historic experience of the Omaha people is a great example, in that they arrived in Nebraska after being pushed out of the Ohio valley by member groups of the Iroquois confederacy.

    In my opinion, the biggest problem with the Redskins logo is that the branding is somehow supposed to be representative of all North American indigenous people groups. The MOO logo, on the other hand, is tied by the corporate name to just one people group, which leads me back to my original point: Has anyone from MOO asked the Omaha people what they think of the logo?

  174. If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

  175. If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

  176. If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

  177. PA Bill

    If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

    You're a racist. :tongue:

  178. PA Bill

    If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

    You're a racist. :tongue:

  179. PA Bill

    If everything is racist, is anything racist? That word has been cheapened so much it is becoming a joke. For me, it jumped the shark when I found out my favorite pancakes were racist.
    I could see it if I liked chocolate chips in my pancakes. But I don't!:nah:

    You're a racist. :tongue:

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