A Harpoon with Business Implications

[Winter_123]

The CBO says Obama's bill will cost a trillion and push the country deeper into debt. Obama says it will reduce health care costs, stimulate the economy, and reduce long-term debt. He wants to say that it just the evil republicans and insurance companies that are bucking him. Not so. The CBO just put a harpoon right straight through him. The dems can splain that one on the Sunday talk shows tomorrow.

The dems will nevetheless pass a reform bill although at a greatly reduced funding level. The business implications are that the government will be less capable of offering a public option that is benefit-rich and fully competitive. Or, at least we can agree, reduced funding does not help, eh? It also increases the likelihood that the public offering will have holes in it that will need to be filled with a supp, a CI plan, a major-med, a mini-med, or something. Or reduced funding might increase the chances of the public option being income-tested so that if there are not enough bucks to offer the public option to all then you the next tier up above medicaid is eligible perhaps with sliding fee buy0in above that, if that appeals to anyone.

I was in government long enough and managed enough government programs to know that when an administration wants to kill a program they underfund it so that it will fail and then send the program and financial auditors in to document that it is failing then Congress kills the program. However, that works both ways. If Congress underfunds the public option it makes it a sitting duck for critics who point out all the things that it is not doing and you have failures all over the place. Keep in mind that the public is expecting this public option thing to be good - not a quasi-welfare dogfood program. Congress can only reduce funding so much without making it that.

Let em pass a greatly reduced program so that Obama can get to say that he passed a bill. Seeing how that plays out might be the best thing to happen to the private sector plans competing with it.

Rank-and-file House Democrats resist health care reform plan - Patrick O'Connor - POLITICO.com

 

[Dave020]

I am not sure where the liberal house ends and Obama begins on all of this. I get the feeling that he would be reluctant to sign the current house bill as it stands.

He was quoted as follows this morning--

"He [Obama] argued that, despite what his critics said, he would not sign any bill that increased the deficit, that his plan would not result in government control over anyone's health care or insurance choices, and that there would be no rationing of medical care."

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - White House, GOP face off on health care as deadline looms - Blogs from CNN.com

 

[Winter_123]

I am not sure where the liberal house ends and Obama begins on all of this. I get the feeling that he would be reluctant to sign the current house bill as it stands.

He was quoted as follows this morning--

"He [Obama] argued that, despite what his critics said, he would not sign any bill that increased the deficit, that his plan would not result in government control over anyone's health care or insurance choices, and that there would be no rationing of medical care."

Well, Barry's job now is to convince Congress and the people that he knows more about economic forecasting than the Congressional Budget Office does. Good luck with that.

It doesnt help that the stimulus is not working and Bidenmouth is out there saying they underestimated the size of what would be needed. So he has to convince folks now that he is the one to take economic advice from, including health care cost projections. And as discussed, it also does not help that right in the midst of it all California is offering a glaring example of what it would look like if you get it wrong.

Have a nice day Barry. Tell us about the size of the health care plan you inherited from George Bush. Wait...that doesnt work, does it.

Maybe Joe is right. They need to spend more to prevent the country from going into bankruptcy......giggle..........giggle. Take that one back to your district in Cutbank, Montana and run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.

 

[jsd1239]

I am not sure where the liberal house ends and Obama begins on all of this. I get the feeling that he would be reluctant to sign the current house bill as it stands.

He was quoted as follows this morning--

"He [Obama] argued that, despite what his critics said, he would not sign any bill that increased the deficit, that his plan would not result in government control over anyone's health care or insurance choices, and that there would be no rationing of medical care."

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - White House, GOP face off on health care as deadline looms - Blogs from CNN.com

Do you believe him, what happened to his transparent government and why is he giving the house and senate a deadline. Is it because he, Pelosi and Reed are trying to hide something, and slip some pork through, just like the stimulas and the banks and AIG bail outs?

 

[somarco]

when an administration wants to kill a program they underfund it so that it will fail and then send the program and financial auditors in to document that it is failing then Congress kills the program.

Name one entitlement program that has been killed off in the last 50 years.

spend more to prevent the country from going into bankruptcy.

Maybe we need to get the same judge who presided over the GM bankruptcy to do likewise for the USA.

File bankruptcy, cancelling all debts including unfunded liabilities and emerge 40 days later. The old farts and Chinese who bought our Treasuries get screwed but so what? We have a clean slate.

Smaller cars, bigger health insurance, Poppa Washington.

 

[Winter_123]

Name one entitlement program that has been killed off in the last 50 years.

Nevertheless the actual level of funding for a program intended to compete with the private sector will be a critical factor. Health reform is here as an entitlement but passing it at a highly reduced level versus as a complete and total pork-out will make a difference as to how benefit-rich and competitive it will be with private plans. So I agree that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle on health care or any other entitlement program but if they produce the desire effect that will have implications both for future funding and selection of those plans by the public, methinks. So there are risks in Obama signing any of these less-than-a-trillion-dollar bills because he will end out having to offer an el-cheapo public option with health care rationing. It will not be a matter of eliminating an entitlement at that point, it just will stall and sputter. Exactly as has happened in Maine and Mass with their half-baked health plans. To your point, these entitlement plans have not gone away. To my point, in Maine anyway, they have not passed muster to receive any additional funding and have not enrolled a new person in two years.

Also, even though it is rare, if things get bad enough there can actually be retrenchment on entitlement programs. Witness California. Welfare and health insurance for kids this month. Next month, not so much.
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Maybe we need to get the same judge who presided over the GM bankruptcy to do likewise for the USA.

File bankruptcy, cancelling all debts including unfunded liabilities and emerge 40 days later. The old farts and Chinese who bought our Treasuries get screwed but so what? We have a clean slate.

Smaller cars, bigger health insurance, Poppa Washington.

I think printing money achieves the same result. You just pay them back with inflated dollars. Unfortunately when we blow one of their feet off like that we blow both of ours off at the same time.

Change you can believe in.

 

[somarco]

Biggest difference in entitlements at the state level vs federal is this.

The states don't print their own money. They have borrowing ability but not like the feds.

I don't recall any Chinese buying GA bonds.

I finally got around to watching IOUSA a few days ago. Scary stuff. REAL scary.

 

[Winter_123]

Biggest difference in entitlements at the state level vs federal is this.

.

Quite so. Also of note is the fact that most of the so-called state entitlements are just re-packaged federal funds when you pull the curtain back. Programs funded by block grants to the states would be one example, state-administered medicaid would be another example, and the use of federal stimulus funds to match medicaid funds and to support various state programs would be yet another example. It cuts across many programs. When some podunk town in West Virginia looks to the state for what their yearly allocation, if any, for road repair might be, you can be damn sure that it all depends on what the state got for transportation and highway funding from the feds at some point.

As they say in Maine about life out on the islands, when you trace the family tree back more than two generations, it begins to look like a brush pile.

 

[jsd1239]

I'm sure someone here will believe this. I know I don't.

When you post from underneath a cloak, you can say anything and be anything.

Don't you just love the internet? Say what you want? Be what you want? No one can prove otherwise.

I'll tell you this, Winter. When you throw the s--t, you really throw it far! You, who hates everyone, working for the government... as a manager? Only the agents here with a high school education (maybe one year of JC) are going to believe that. Of course, I think that is the majority... so you win again.

Talk about hiding al3, you don't even show what state you are from. As for high school and JC educations I have talked to a lot of people that have those educations and they have more common sense and are up on current events more then people with 4 year and more degree's. I'll bet you wouldn't turn down an insurance sale to someone who doesn't have a degree, would you. Get off your high horse, just because you may have a 4 year degree doesn't mean you are smarter or better then anyone else.
Get out in the real world.

 

[Dave020]

The states don't print their own money.

Sure they do! Attached is the current Republic of California currency. Works at Taco Bell and Chinese places