Check Your "Vested Contracts"

Joe Moore

Guru
100+ Post Club
Last year we declined an IMO contract (thankfully), due to the fact if we were terminated for any reason our commissions would stop and any debit balances would be immediately due. This would also be the plight of our agents. They would be fired, their commissions would stop, and they would owe the company. I could envision us developing advance balances of $500,000, which when fired would turn into debit balances. We may have been backed up by $1,000,000 in future earnings, but those earnings would stop if we were fired.

Well, well, well. I thought I had very well checked to make sure our agents and we were protected from this way of a company latching onto (stealing) commissions. I was wrong. We had a sub-IMO with one of only 6 IMOs in the country. I had been told, without me reading the contract, by the good friend IMO it was fully vested. I still don't think the IMO intentionally told me wrong.

The first of this year, we had a $5000 debit balance from an agent rolled to us. For some unknown reason the company decided they would start notifying me at my home, which is not my business mailing address on company records. The notifications looked like cheap advertisements and were ignored by my wife.

You guessed it, we were fired, commissions stopped and we owed the debt--no certified mail, nothing that I noticed until it was all over. I talked to our attorney, and he had no ready answers except pay. When times get tough, some companies start trying to suck money in any way they can. This company has a national presence and mentioned many times on this forum, usually in a positive way.

About 15 years ago, I had a company sue me for $8800 of bonuses a couple years after they had been paid, saying all our clients had died or had dropped the policies. At the time, I still had 3 relatives who still had the policies. Needless to say, they lost in court and the judge saw what jackasses they really were. They had been touring the country suing agents.

These situations did not make me anti-company, we deal with some great companies. But it did make me appreciate when companies try to be fair to their marketing folks, and detest the crooks.

This is just another reason to sleep with your eyes open, and don't make it too easy by sleeping with Vaseline.
 
Thanks for the heads-up, Joe.

I recently signed up with an FMO for UHC out of AL and noted that the contract was exactly the same as the one I signed in 2007 (word for word) when I contracted with UHC direct.

After your post, I re-read it today... In section 4.7 (p.10) concerning vesting, they address the issue and say that the compensation due the agent will continue after termination regardless of whether the Agreement is still in force as long as the policyholder/CMS continues to pay the premiums, unless the agent intentionally rolls over his book. They even allow for "occasional or inadvertant" replacement as "unavoidable", which is righteous.

edit: I just finished checking several other contracts, and most all have wording similar to UHC's. Interestingly, Sterling Investors differs the most... they say they will pay all vested commissions except for those not in force or refunded, and concerning roll-over business, just say they will charge $250 per occurrence. (This has been discussed in the forum previously)

Can you elaborate on which carrier's FMO contract vests differently?
 
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Thanks for the heads-up, Joe.

I recently signed up with an FMO for UHC out of AL and noted that the contract was exactly the same as the one I signed in 2007 (word for word) when I contracted with UHC direct.

After your post, I re-read it today... In section 4.7 (p.10) concerning vesting, they address the issue and say that the compensation due the agent will continue after termination regardless of whether the Agreement is still in force as long as the policyholder/CMS continues to pay the premiums, unless the agent intentionally rolls over his book. They even allow for "occasional or inadvertant" replacement as "unavoidable", which is righteous.

edit: I just finished checking several other contracts, and most all have wording similar to UHC's. Interestingly, Sterling Investors differs the most... they say they will pay all vested commissions except for those not in force or refunded, and concerning roll-over business, just say they will charge $250 per occurrence. (This has been discussed in the forum previously)

Can you elaborate on which carrier's FMO contract vests differently?

I have sent you a PM.
 
Assured Lifes contract states that if you are terminated you will continue to recive your vested commission unless you are "no longer the Agent of record". Then in a later paragraph it states they have the right to change the Agent of record anytime they want. I no longer write Assured Life.
 
Who is the company?

Thanks

Last year we declined an IMO contract (thankfully), due to the fact if we were terminated for any reason our commissions would stop and any debit balances would be immediately due. This would also be the plight of our agents. They would be fired, their commissions would stop, and they would owe the company. I could envision us developing advance balances of $500,000, which when fired would turn into debit balances. We may have been backed up by $1,000,000 in future earnings, but those earnings would stop if we were fired.

Well, well, well. I thought I had very well checked to make sure our agents and we were protected from this way of a company latching onto (stealing) commissions. I was wrong. We had a sub-IMO with one of only 6 IMOs in the country. I had been told, without me reading the contract, by the good friend IMO it was fully vested. I still don't think the IMO intentionally told me wrong.

The first of this year, we had a $5000 debit balance from an agent rolled to us. For some unknown reason the company decided they would start notifying me at my home, which is not my business mailing address on company records. The notifications looked like cheap advertisements and were ignored by my wife.

You guessed it, we were fired, commissions stopped and we owed the debt--no certified mail, nothing that I noticed until it was all over. I talked to our attorney, and he had no ready answers except pay. When times get tough, some companies start trying to suck money in any way they can. This company has a national presence and mentioned many times on this forum, usually in a positive way.

About 15 years ago, I had a company sue me for $8800 of bonuses a couple years after they had been paid, saying all our clients had died or had dropped the policies. At the time, I still had 3 relatives who still had the policies. Needless to say, they lost in court and the judge saw what jackasses they really were. They had been touring the country suing agents.

These situations did not make me anti-company, we deal with some great companies. But it did make me appreciate when companies try to be fair to their marketing folks, and detest the crooks.

This is just another reason to sleep with your eyes open, and don't make it too easy by sleeping with Vaseline.
 
If it's in their contract, they shouldn't mind you posting about it on here. Can you post the name?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I can't imagine it's information they want to hide :)
 
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A vested contract with that clause is not a vested contract. I specifically look for reasons the company can stop paying commissions in all contracts.

Most clean contracts only say they'll stop paying comms if you're termed for cause such as fraud or negligence.
 
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