Provider Has SAN, Do I Need It?

[AboutThatLife]

My dialer has DNC scrubbing in each state I choose to call. Some dialers require a SAN, this one doesn't. So do I still need one? I don't understand why I would.

It's saving me a lot of money per state.

 

[pcbinsurance]

You still need one. I'm sure Josh will be along shortly to explain.

 

[Josh]

Technically if you're doing dialing you are required to scrub a list when you get it and at least once every 30 days after that.

If you are telemarketing or are hiring telemarketers to call for you, then you need to have a SAN. There is a confusing chart at https://telemarketing.donotcall.gov/faq/entity.aspx.

In practicality very few people actually do it that way, but if you're a stickler for compliance, then that's the way to do it.

Note: Buying a list that's prescrubbed does NOT eliminate your responsibility to do your own scrubbing. You can get a free scrubbing tool at Predictive Dialers System, Mortgage Automatic Dialer, Make My Calls and we should have ours launched soon as well.

 

[AboutThatLife]

I should clarify, I have a SAN. I don't have access to more than 5 area codes, and I don't see why I have to buy the additional area codes if the service I'm using provides a scrubber. It's not a list, it's a dialer that scrubs the list when you upload it.

You can scrub it as often as you want within the platform and unlike other dialers they don't require the area codes you scrub to be assigned to your SAN.

 

[pcbinsurance]

Of course you "don't see why you have to buy the additional area codes" but the fact remains, you are required to do so if you're telemarketing. When/if you get nailed, they are coming for you and not the "scrubber" you're speaking of.

 

[Josh]

Of course you "don't see why you have to buy the additional area codes" but the fact remains, you are required to do so if you're telemarketing. When/if you get nailed, they are coming for you and not the "scrubber" you're speaking of.

Exactly.

For folks doing robocalls/voice broadcasting, the risk is pretty considerable. There is something fundamentally different about the way the DNC portion of the TCPA is written as opposed to the ATDS portions. Once per year per phone number you get a free pass on calling someone that was on the DNC list. You also get a free pass if you can prove it was an accident and that you have reasonable procedures and policies in place to prevent violations. So what's the actual exposure of not being compliant? Probably not very much. But this is what I find confusing, AboutThatLife in earlier posts seemed super interested in being compliant.

Back to the original question, yes, you, as the person using the dialer, are required to have a SAN that covers all of the area codes that you are calling in. That's the law. Odds are you'd fair well in litigation and the chances of it happening are pretty slim, but ultimately if you're telemarketing in an area code you should pony up the (I believe) $60 per area code and be compliant. How can you know for sure that the dialer company is actually scrubbing it? You can't, the only way you know is if you're doing the scrubbing yourself and you can't do that if you don't have the rights to download the suppression list.

Yes, if you're doing business nationwide it's expensive to drop ~$16k on the national DNC license, but if you've chosen to walk the straight and narrow, that's the price of admission.

 

[djs]

Do you know if the dialer company has a current DNC list?

They provide a service, but you are responsible for it. Turns out, it is very clear that if someone comes after you, the only safe-harbor for you is based on YOUR SAN, not on someone elses. I'm sure it will be one of the first questions on the complaint you'll have to respond to.

To be honest, its probably a pretty low risk if they are actually scrubbing it with a current list, but it is a risk that you take on. Your dialer company is also violating a few rules by allowing you to scrub the list without you having a SAN to permit it. They can do it for you, no problem, but they need your san to do it with.

Face it, its the only way they can sell multiple licenses at $16K a year or I could just give you a copy of my DNC list (for a fee.... no, that's not an offer to sell mine!).


Dan

 

[AboutThatLife]

Exactly.

For folks doing robocalls/voice broadcasting, the risk is pretty considerable. There is something fundamentally different about the way the DNC portion of the TCPA is written as opposed to the ATDS portions. Once per year per phone number you get a free pass on calling someone that was on the DNC list. You also get a free pass if you can prove it was an accident and that you have reasonable procedures and policies in place to prevent violations. So what's the actual exposure of not being compliant? Probably not very much. But this is what I find confusing, AboutThatLife in earlier posts seemed super interested in being compliant.

Because its too expensive and cashflow is horrible right now. Being a sole proprietor, one man operation for the time being, my compliance burden isn't super high.

On one hand you want to cold call, on the other hand buying real time leads almost completely wipes away most of the TCPA/DNC burden. They are just expensive and unreliable. People in America become successful by the skin of their teeth.

Donald Trump is an ICON on this forum and he has built his fortune using illegal and barely legal methods. Most of the "compliant" people who did business with him are probably not in business anymore.

Just like that Bradley Jennings guy who is vilified for running a similar operation.

 

[Josh]

This is where you confuse me. You seem really obsessed with compliance, but then when I explain the compliance to you then you get all squeamish about it. Frank Stastny used to all but say that agents should call people who are on the DNC and considering how many people learned from him, I haven't heard of anyone getting pinched for it. It's illegal to drive above the speed limit, but nearly 100% of drivers go at least a few mph over the limit.

It's a business decision; do you understand the risk and are you willing to take it? Yes, what you're suggesting you're doing is technically illegal, but what is your exposure and are you willing to take the risk? Most of the litigation happening now is around press 1 campaigns and some about using a dialer, specifically when calling a cell phone.

In terms of dollars and cents, if you can't get enough business out of an area code to justify the $60 expense, I'm not sure why you'd even be doing it. The first five for free should give you a pretty good idea of if it's working or not.

 

[AboutThatLife]

You're right, but 2 out of 5 are mobile heavy area codes and one was a low population state which was useless. I didn't understand the law when I chose them.