2021 dividends

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

NY Life held.
I suspect Guardian will hold .
They just released their new 7702 ten pay.
If they were going to change I would think they would make the change the unveil the new product.
But.....they did not ask for my opinion.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[scagnt83]

Penn held at 5.75% for 2022 Dividend Rate.

 

[scagnt83]

I suspect Guardian will hold .
They just released their new 7702 ten pay.
If they were going to change I would think they would make the change the unveil the new product.

It will tank their sales by true independent agents if they drop. Their competitiveness (from an illustration standpoint) as plummeted over the past 10 years.

What their HO does not seem to understand, is that most indy agents dont show just 1 carrier as an option to clients. And why on earth would a client choose a carrier projecting 20% less in CV? Especially when they talk like they are the best of the best...

My old regional rep once said "WL is sold on financial strength, not illustrations or dividend rates or policy features... its all about "our promise"". I laughed inside when he said that. Showed how out of touch he really was. Seemed to reflect the general attitude at Guardian from my experience. My new regional rep barely reps the life products, mainly just pushes DI since he knows that is where they are truly competitive.

They keep pushing their new term rates... which still suck unless its being bought to convert to Guardian WL. But at least they are semi-reasonable now compared to the nose bleed high pricing in the past.

The whole 10x PUA marketing gimmick on their WL is just dumb and overly complicates an already complicated product. And adds unnecessary expense to it.

The bright point on their life side is their willingness to take on higher risk cases vs. others. Especially over the past 2 years with so many carriers putting limits on rated cases. At this point that is literally the only reason I sell or quote Guardian Life Insurance.... because its a backup for a rated case. (backup because its always more expensive than the primary choice)

Guardian is quickly becoming just a DI carrier for the true independent agent. Which is fine since they are actually a competitive player on the DI side.

jmo

 

[DonP]

Those dividend yields around 5.75% are strong in a near 0% rate environment

 

[scagnt83]

Those dividend yields around 5.75% are strong in a near 0% rate environment

They are. The policy does not net 5.75% to the CV. But its still a very strong rate the cash gets long term compared to current "safe money" rates.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Your new Guardian rep is probably what they call a DIS. A disability income specialist, he probably does not know much about life. Guardian regionals only rep their product line.
As the Life rep I never promoted DI and vice versa.
I was the Guardian home office rep in your area for 10 years. If I was not introduced to you by a GA we never met. The new Regional's rep is Tony and I will give you odds he has never been to your office.
My old regional rep once said "WL is sold on financial strength, not illustrations or dividend rates or policy features... its all about "our promise"". Your old regional rep would have been me and I can guarantee you I never said that.
I like the 10 x base for PUA, you never get that far because of MEC limits but you are able to load a lot of PUA into a product without blending and adding a term element.
Not many are just selling an all base product these days.

 

[scagnt83]

Your new Guardian rep is probably what they call a DIS. A disability income specialist, he probably does not know much about life. Guardian regionals only rep their product line.
As the Life rep I never promoted DI and vice versa.
I was the Guardian home office rep in your area for 10 years. If I was not introduced to you by a GA we never met. The new Regional's rep is Tony and I will give you odds he has never been to your office.
My old regional rep once said "WL is sold on financial strength, not illustrations or dividend rates or policy features... its all about "our promise"". Your old regional rep would have been me and I can guarantee you I never said that.

We have a terminology difference here. You are correct, Ive never spoken to a Guardian HO regional rep. Im talking about the "regional" from the GA I am associated with. So whatever title Guardian gives that position. Either way, the person in my region who called on me to promote guardian life products said that. They are no longer with the company I dont believe. At least no longer in that position.

And you are correct, the new guy is a DIS. He has a "life specialist" under him who he refers any in depth LI questions or requests to. And he openly will say he is a DI specialist not Life. That is not a negative imo, he is the most honest, straightforward, & hardworking "regional" Ive worked with from any carrier in a very long time.

 

[scagnt83]

I like the 10 x base for PUA, you never get that far because of MEC limits but you are able to load a lot of PUA into a product without blending and adding a term element.
Not many are just selling an all base product these days.

That is not correct. The 10x base pua option is still blending. They just blend via the dividend option and not through a rider. Its still an added expense on the policy just like a traditional term rider.

In fact, that Dividend Option (dividend option Q) says right beside it something to the extent of "purchase level term with remaining going to pua".

Plus, it is a more expensive option long term vs. a traditional term rider because the 10x term blend lasts for the life of the policy (or close to it) and is not able to be dropped in a certain year.

I can design a Guardian policy without Opt Q using traditional term riders, and it competes close to Opt Q with CV ... plus the DB is more competitive.

So I stand by my comment, its a marketing gimmick. Not all carriers are forcing term blends. And many that have the newer "term blend riders" allow it to drop in a set year chosen by the agent/client. Big difference.

Ive had multiple prospects hear about 10x PUA and come to me asking to see a Guardian illustration... then they ask "why does it look so terrible" when comparing it to the competition. They think 10x pua will just blow away the carriers that are at 3x or 4x base to pua.

---

Also, I believe Guardian knows good and well the 10x pua deal is not the best thing for clients. But it makes them more money with the much longer term costs being added to the WL contract.

Think about it, instead of dividends going to CV and DB... they are first and foremost being used to pay for term insurance. Great deal for the carrier...

So its a marketing gimmick based out of greed, that misleads consumers about the real costs and benefits within the policy they bought. Pushing Opt Q has made me lose a lot of respect for Guardian on the life side.

(I personally would never own a policy with Dividend Option Q)

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

You do not need option q to put 10x base premium into a policy.
It will mec the policy but you can do it.
Opt q is the same thing as Mass LISR and Penn and NYLife have a similar option.
I am not a big fan of blending and I agree with you that why purchase PUA and pay for term.
10x PUA will cause a MEC everytime.
Here is an example of Max PUA with no Q, you are not forced to buy term.
I am not going to continue arguing with you, as you can see your claim that are forced to buy term is incorrect.
If you would like to take this offline and have a friendly chat I would be more than willing to do so

 

[scagnt83]

You do not need option q to put 10x base premium into a policy.
It will mec the policy but you can do it.
Opt q is the same thing as Mass LISR and Penn and NYLife have a similar option.
I am not a big fan of blending and I agree with you that why purchase PUA and pay for term.
10x PUA will cause a MEC everytime.
Here is an example of Max PUA with no Q, you are not forced to buy term.
I am not going to continue arguing with you, as you can see your claim that are forced to buy term is incorrect.
If you would like to take this offline and have a friendly chat I would be more than willing to do so

Im not trying to argue, just respectfully discuss. I know you are a guardian guy and Im sorry if it comes across as me bashing them. Overall I like them as a carrier. I think all carriers are greedy, not just them. But I do think they push Opt Q heavily because it is better for them actuarily and makes them more money. jmo

Im happy to speak offline, but I do feel its of benefit to the forum to discuss stuff like this publicly.

The issue we have here, is that 98% of overfunded WL sales who would want 10x pua.. do not want a MEC policy.

So to stay within MEC limits, Opt Q must be used. Which ime encompasses the majority of overfunded WL sales.

Getting back on subject, hopefully Guardian stays strong going into 2022 and keeps dividends steady!