Agents Going Out on Good Friday?

[Bob L]

The warning is at the end of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle John and since the Bible as a "book" had not been assembled at the time, it is in error to try to say that particular verse applies to the Bible as a whole.

As for the other translations, many of those you mention were translated from the earliest Greek and Latin Manuscripts avaiable and did not rely solely on the two Codex that you mention.

I have no problem using the KJV but keep in mind it was a translation that came into existence for political reasons and was influenced by the Doctrine of the Church of England of which James was the head. There have been many changes made in the KJV Bibles that are used today when compared to the original 1611. In fact, if you had the original 1611 translation, few people in the US today could even read it. It was written in Old English and even the typeface was different form what we use today.

Rouse, I have given up on debating King-James-Onlyites some time ago. The best Bible translation to use is the one you read as long as it is true to the Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic mss.

Most of the time they claim all other versions came from corrupted Alexandrian mss. The argument of Catholic sourcing is new to me. I need to study this issue some more.

There are real problems with the KJV today. First of all, if you preach from it, you need to constantly stop and say something like "what this passage really means is..." A couple examples come to mind. In 1 Thess 4:15, the KJV reads "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." You would need to stop reading and tell your congregation that "prevent" means "precede" because meanings change. The sentence makes absolutely no sense in the KJV. Another is 1 Cor 13, which, for example, deals with the fact that no matter how great your faith is, without love, it amounts to nothing. When the KJV renders this as "charity," most of the true meaning is lost. The English word "love" is much more appropriate. Words' meanings change!

I can think of a complete mistranslation or two also. Where 1 Tim 6:10 reads, in the KJV, "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." common sense will tell you that lots of other things (like lust, pride, and so on) are roots of evil. The original Greek reads as the New American Standard does, i.e., "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil..." This is much closer in meaning to what Paul wrote than the KJV text says.

There are other problems, such as the KJV's reference to the Holy Spirit as an "it," instead of "He," that bother me. However, some passages should be read in the King James because of the beauty of the text, for example, the Christmas story in Luke 2, and Psalm 23.

The bottom line is that whether you read the KJV or NASB, the important message is the same, the main part of which we celebrated yesterday! And lest I be accused of going off-topic, I agree we should not sell on Good Friday or Easter.

 

[HoosierLife]

Yeah there are about 150 words in the KJV that we no longer use, but most people that read any Shakespeare would be able to understand the meaning in context. That is why there were 7 updates to the KJV, to update the language. But the last time we tried that, they went off the deep end IMO.

So having to define some words is not that big of a deal to me. Plus once you've read the Bible through a time or two, it becomes a non-issue.

I used to be in the other camp. Got saved reading the NIV and used the ESV for years personally. Then when all the different versions starting flooding the market and I noticed verses being completely different compared to other versions, I decided to study the issue out.

I believe the Greek mss behind the newer versions have been corrupted, based on my studies, which have been extensive. Again, I didn't start my walk in the KJV only crowd. I'm here by conviction.

 

[Norwayguy]

Is this thread headed for the Fight Club?

It is sounding pretty religious too bad there is no longer a religion and politics subforum.... not.

 

[PA Bill]

Protestants get on Catholics for not taking the Bible at its literal word when the protestants can't even agree what the literal word literally means.

 

[Bob L]

Protestants get on Catholics for not taking the Bible at its literal word when the protestants can't even agree what the literal word literally means.

I found an old Greek manuscript that has some "lost verses" in it.

3 Tim 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of much churning and many replacements..." The rest of the verse has been lost.

Hey, I didn't start this, but I'll end it by emphasing the second sentence of my post above...

Have a great day!

 

[PA Bill]

I found an old Greek manuscript that has some "lost verses" in it.

3 Tim 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of much churning and many replacements..." The rest of the verse has been lost.

Hey, I didn't start this, but I'll end it by emphasing the second sentence of my post above...

Have a great day!

It wasn't my intent to come off as snarky or disrespectful. I grew up in a family populated by some passionate Presbyterians and Catholics. Made for some interesting debates. I actually have much respect for men like you and Rouse who have taken the time to study the Bible and are as passionate about it and your faith as you two are. I found your back and forth with Rouse interesting, as well. Have a great day yourself, my man. And God Bless!

 

[rousemark]

It wasn't my intent to come off as snarky or disrespectful. I grew up in a family populated by some passionate Presbyterians and Catholics. Made for some interesting debates. I actually have much respect for men like you and Rouse who have taken the time to study the Bible and are as passionate about it and your faith as you two are. I found your back and forth with Rouse interesting, as well. Have a great day yourself, my man. And God Bless!

Didn't take your post to be snarky or disrespectful.. It is true. However, sometimes the truth might sting just a little..

 

[Bob L]

It wasn't my intent to come off as snarky or disrespectful. I grew up in a family populated by some passionate Presbyterians and Catholics. Made for some interesting debates. I actually have much respect for men like you and Rouse who have taken the time to study the Bible and are as passionate about it and your faith as you two are. I found your back and forth with Rouse interesting, as well. Have a great day yourself, my man. And God Bless!

Thanks for your kind words, Bill. Yeah, I'll hazard a guess that some of those discussions were quite lively!

I happen to attend a Baptist church, and one of my best friends is a Church of Christ deacon. We both have a mutual friend who's a big-time charismatic. When you get a Baptist, C of C, and pentecostal group together, it makes for some lively debates at 11:30 pm at Shoney's restaurant. We eventually let it all drop years ago, agreeing on about 95% and disagreeing on the 5%.

But I did consider myself a winner in one respect. I made substantial progress with my Church of Christ deacon friend. He no longer is convinced I'm headed for hell since I don't go to one of his denomination's churches, and because we have a piano and organ sitting up front of the sanctuary.

 

[rousemark]

Thanks for your kind words, Bill. Yeah, I'll hazard a guess that some of those discussions were quite lively!

I happen to attend a Baptist church, and one of my best friends is a Church of Christ deacon. We both have a mutual friend who's a big-time charismatic. When you get a Baptist, C of C, and pentecostal group together, it makes for some lively debates at 11:30 pm at Shoney's restaurant. We eventually let it all drop years ago, agreeing on about 95% and disagreeing on the 5%.

But I did consider myself a winner in one respect. I made substantial progress with my Church of Christ deacon friend. He no longer is convinced I'm headed for hell since I don't go to one of his denomination's churches, and because we have a piano and organ sitting up front of the sanctuary.

I understand your discussions with your C of C friend. I am a memeber of the indenpendent Christian churches that came out of the same movement as the C of C. For a group that started out proclaiming unity of all beleivers, we sure made a mess of it. We have divided into three major groups along with untold numbers of splinter groups... Church of Christ (non instrumental), Christian Church/Church of Christ, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

 

[Bob L]

I understand your discussions with your C of C friend. I am a memeber of the indenpendent Christian churches that came out of the same movement as the C of C. For a group that started out proclaiming unity of all beleivers, we sure made a mess of it. We have divided into three major groups along with untold numbers of splinter groups... Church of Christ (non instrumental), Christian Church/Church of Christ, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

LOL -- know what you mean. Have you ever tried to count how many Baptist groups there are? Southern Baptists, Cooperative Baptist Fellowship Baptists, Freewill Baptists, Primitive Baptists, Particular Baptists, Independent Baptists, Fundamentalist Baptists, American Baptists, John the Baptist, and a dozen or so more groups that I cannot think of this late!