Ameritas vs Penn WL - a $130K decision

[SParker]

Hi All, am comparing Ameritas vs Penn's participating WL policies. $20K, 20 pay.

20 years into the policy:

Ameritas' guaranteed cash value is $70K higher than Penn
Ameritas' guaranteed death benefit is $130K higher than Penn

Question: given the above and assuming all else being equal, would you still go with Penn because Penn has better reputation ?


Comdex score - Penn 92
Comdex score - Ameritas 81

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[pfg1]

?? Can you post the illustrations, I feel like maybe that isn't correct. That's a pretty big difference when comparing any 2 companies.
Also, while its fine to look at the guaranteed side - keep in mind that its also pretty much guaranteed to not happen like that shows (no dividend ever). Idk about Ameritas but Penn has paid a dividend for like 170yrs. What does the non-guar side say?

 

[SParker]

Yes, it is too big a difference to ignore and go straight with Penn just because Penn has better reputation.

As for the NON guaranteed side, Ameritas' numbers pale.

NON GUARANTEED 20 years into the policy

Guaranteed cash value - Ameritas is LOWER by $73K
Guaranteed death benefit - Ameritas is LOWER by $118K


Can I send send you the illustrations via private message box? Am happy to post illustrations here but not sure if it is kosher for me to post them as they were shared with me by another person.

 

[SParker]

There is no file upload button in private inbox. I am uploading an excerpt from the illustration here. Insured's age and health status identical on both illustrations. Look at the numbers 20 years into the policy. Huge difference in the Guaranteed columns.

 

[jboussea]

AMeritas?

are you sure you're not comparing IUL vs WL

There are many differences between IUL and WL that would have to be considered. and what rate are you running the IUL at? Cap rates do change .. and I would try to lower the max rate for the IUL ...

 

[SParker]

are you sure you're not comparing IUL vs WL

Thanks, have you looked at the file I uploaded? I am new to this, correct me if I am wrong, IUL doesn't give GUARANTEED cash value and death benefits, does it ?

It is a participating WL illustration from Ameritas. Not UL. I am certain.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

AMeritas?

are you sure you're not comparing IUL vs WL

There are many differences between IUL and WL that would have to be considered. and what rate are you running the IUL at? Cap rates do change .. and I would try to lower the max rate for the IUL ...

It's WL and the structure is built to compete with guarantees (knowing that those guarantees are an unlikely scenario) instead of (non-guaranteed) dividends.

It's nothing but a scare tactic imho. It's not like Penn, Mass, and Guardian are going to suddenly suspend dividends.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

I am new to this, correct me if I am wrong, IUL doesn't give GUARANTEED cash value and death benefits, does it ?

They all have guaranteed columns...IUL just won't look as good.

 

[pfg1]

I don't really know Ameritas, Ray would. Ameritas is $60k higher on initial db which drives up the DB by default. Also what you showed is not a 20 pay, its paying 20yrs of Base & PUA. They still have the base premium due each year after year 20, just an fyi. The NG side is what you need to be looking at, not the guaranteed side, imo.

As far as Comdex... well outside of the really big/strong carriers most will go up and down. Most of the solid companies are ok to deal with even if the comdex isn't super high. Although, we've seen some strong companies drop dramatically in a few short years, and other go up pretty well fairly quickly also. So how they rank depends on when you look at them. Everyone always says only use a strong A rated - higher comdex carrier. Well look at Genworth for example. They were for a long time, now they're in the toilet, and in a pretty rapid timeframe as well. Ohio National was mid 90's not long ago, now low 80's. Not that they are bad, but that is a big swing.

 

[SParker]

THANKS everyone, appreciate the feedback and comments.