Annuities Objection

Since no one addressed this directly, and I need a few more posts to get to 10, I might as well...

Without any moonlight philosphy lol can anyone honestly provide a direct, accurate response for each objection to close the annuity sale ie...

Client questioning a tax deferred fixed annuity, 12% bonus, 5% fixed interest rate, lifetime income rider,American Equity

1. How does the insurance company profit from an annuity sale when they offer 12% bonus and 5% fixed interest rate

When you deposit money into a FIA, the insurance company puts most of the money in its general account, which generally contains various types of bonds. The remaining funds are used to pay commissions and other expenses, plus buy call options on whatever index the contract is tied to. The insurer also has a profit built in there somewhere.

A few things to note in your question; the bonus is largely smoke and mirrors. It isn't vested until 14 years, and since the insurance company knows they gave a bonus, they will simply impose a slightly lower cap rate and minimum guaranteed rate throughout the lifetime of the contract in order to recapture the bonus. It's a sales tool, no more, no less. Secondly, the 5% is likely not a fixed interest rate (at least not these days), but an income base roll up. If it were a fixed interest rate, it's surely lower than that now (I don't think 5% MGRs ever existed). If it's an income base roll up, it's not ever actually credited to the contract, but simply used to calculate the annual income that is guaranteed for the lifetime of the contract owner.

So back to the EIA contract you put in $100K. The insurance company puts...

$90,000 into it's general account, where it buys bonds (averaging, say, 4%).

$5,000 to the agent, for commissions.

$2,000 it keeps for profits and to cover expenses.

$3,000 it uses to purchase call options on the S&P 500 (or whatever index the contract credits interest based on).

Now 3 things can happen; the S&P 500 can go up, down, or stay the same.

If it goes UP, the insurer must give the policyholder 5% interest that year (suppose it's capped at 5%). It can do so because the call options it purchased have appreciated significantly.

If it stays the SAME or goes DOWN, the insurer only has to pay the Minimum Guaranteed Rate, which is probably 1%. It's call options will have expired worthless, so it will pay the interest from the $90K in its general account, that is yield 4% (which, over 14 years, at a net of 3% interest, exceed the original $100K deposit, plus any minimum interest guaranteed in the contract).

That's how the contract works, and where the money goes. You could "make" a DIY EIA contract using bonds and call options on eTrade if you wanted to (but you couldn't replicate the tax-deferral).

Bonuses on ALL annuity contracts, are smoke and mirrors. They simply lower the interest rate/cap/whatever in future years to get their bonus back.

If you don't hold the contract through the whole surrender period, they chargeback commissions, and charge the client, and possibly even have a market value adjustment (MVA) to account for losses incurred on their bond portfolio, plus you surrender the bonus.




2. If a customer invests $100K, how long do the annuity payments continue....

Depends if you're talking about a lifetime income rider or annuitization. If you're talking about a lifetime income rider, the payments will continue for the policyholders lifetime (and the spouse, if you chose a spousal rider), and any cash value will be paid out to beneficiaries. If you're talking about annuitization, it could last for the policyholders lifetime, the policyholder and the spouses lifetime, or either of those with a period guaranteed (5, 10, 20 years, etc.). You can also annuitize and guarantee that at least the original deposit is paid out, regardless of when the policyholder dies. The more lives you cover, and the longer you ensure the payments go, the lower the initial payout will be.

3. At time of death, the beneficiaries receive the "Full Contract Value." What exactly is this?

In the case of a lifetime income rider, suppose the income base is $100K because of 10% guaranteed increases in the income base, but the actual contract value is still at the original deposit (say, $50K) because the market hasn't caused any interest to be credited. The client can walk away with $50K, not $100K. But if they start lifetime income benefits, the income amount (say 5% per year for life) will be based on $100K, or $5K per year.

So suppose the person starts lifetime income, and then dies after 1 year. The $5K comes out of the contract value, which was $50K (and is now $45K). Upon the clients death, his beneficiaries would get $45K. Suppose the client lives 30 years, but the contract never gets any interest because the stock market goes down 30 years in a row. The client will still get $5K a year, for all 30 years, even though he ran out of money after 10 years ($50K minus $5K, for ten years, without getting any interest).

In the case where the client runs out of money in the contract like the above scenario, the beneficiaries get zero.



4. I assume that three above categories should somehow sum to $100K + interest earned over the years + the upfront 12% bonus.

That's how it works, assuming you don't surrender the contract early.

5. How much of the proceeds go to # 1 and # 2 (the customer and the beneficiaries) and then how much goes to # 3 (American Equity).

This varies by product and by company. It also depends on how the market performs, and how long the client lives.

6. I need to know how this company makes their money and how much they make versus how much the customer and beneficiearies receive.

You can see how they make their money, but their profit depends on several factors, which you'll never know. As long as the client doesn't surrender the contract early (surrender charges), the client (or their beneficiaries) will always get back all their money, plus the minimum guaranteed rate in the contract, plus the bonus (unless of course they annuitize the contract, which they can only make the decision to do).
 
Wow, sounds like someone had some spare time before Christmas- great reply to the original question though.

As far as the previous post regarding variable annuities vs FIA's, should be a no brainer for anyone over 50-55. Most of the VA's lost a ton of money in the years the markets melted down and were in many cases 403B's where the annuity holders were unaware of their inability to change out of VA to Fixed. Spoke with a lot of clients that said their agent wouldn't return their calls when the 2008 debacle occurred.

Most independent studies will reveal there's no place for VA's instead one would be in better position with Mutual Funds- lower service charges, easier to move from securities to bonds rapidly...I could go on. In reality, VA's and low interest fixed annuities are what has given the industry a bad name, along with high pressure insurance salespersons with limited products and poor training.

Any annuity agent should have proper training- I actually think anyone converting retirement plans to annuities should have at minimum a Series 65 license, because after all you are providing financial advice and I also firmly believe you need a financial department to turn the client's financial information over and let them help develop an independent recommendation from a broad spectrum of annuity options. Add to this, complete disclosure, giving the perspective client a broad picture of what they are getting into. Annuities are excellent ways of providing income for life to ensure a client's pension and SS are enhanced when the COLA's on both slow down and medical costs increase.

Only after all of these steps are performed, then give the client an opportunity to buy an annuity- never sell them, especially with a FIA, because you are going to have to meet with them each year to review the performance and determine what index you are going to select for the coming year.

Granted, if the markets surge in the coming years, the annuity holders will moan and groan as the caps will limit their participation in the profits of the market growth, but seriously, do any of us feel comfortable with the idea that this is going to happen? With this country's debt problems, the financials holding so much of the European debt, the growing strain the budget is going to get hit with the costs associated with the aging baby boomers and the fed retirees, one would have to be a highly optimistic individual to think the markets are going to do anything but sawtooth up and down in the coming years. Someone intrigued by buying and selling stocks based on technicals can and probably will stand to make money, but most retirees don't want to do this- they want to kick back, travel, play golf, play with the grandbabies, etc and annuities placed strategically can provide a great peace of mind that the retirees will never run out of money. As I always say, the key is the agent providing the right advice, maintaining honesty and walking away from an annuity sale when it doesn't fit the client's needs.
 
Wow, sounds like someone had some spare time before Christmas- great reply to the original question though.

As far as the previous post regarding variable annuities vs FIA's, should be a no brainer for anyone over 50-55. Most of the VA's lost a ton of money in the years the markets melted down and were in many cases 403B's where the annuity holders were unaware of their inability to change out of VA to Fixed. Spoke with a lot of clients that said their agent wouldn't return their calls when the 2008 debacle occurred.

Most independent studies will reveal there's no place for VA's instead one would be in better position with Mutual Funds- lower service charges, easier to move from securities to bonds rapidly...I could go on. In reality, VA's and low interest fixed annuities are what has given the industry a bad name, along with high pressure insurance salespersons with limited products and poor training.

Any annuity agent should have proper training- I actually think anyone converting retirement plans to annuities should have at minimum a Series 65 license, because after all you are providing financial advice and I also firmly believe you need a financial department to turn the client's financial information over and let them help develop an independent recommendation from a broad spectrum of annuity options. Add to this, complete disclosure, giving the perspective client a broad picture of what they are getting into. Annuities are excellent ways of providing income for life to ensure a client's pension and SS are enhanced when the COLA's on both slow down and medical costs increase.

Only after all of these steps are performed, then give the client an opportunity to buy an annuity- never sell them, especially with a FIA, because you are going to have to meet with them each year to review the performance and determine what index you are going to select for the coming year.

Granted, if the markets surge in the coming years, the annuity holders will moan and groan as the caps will limit their participation in the profits of the market growth, but seriously, do any of us feel comfortable with the idea that this is going to happen? With this country's debt problems, the financials holding so much of the European debt, the growing strain the budget is going to get hit with the costs associated with the aging baby boomers and the fed retirees, one would have to be a highly optimistic individual to think the markets are going to do anything but sawtooth up and down in the coming years. Someone intrigued by buying and selling stocks based on technicals can and probably will stand to make money, but most retirees don't want to do this- they want to kick back, travel, play golf, play with the grandbabies, etc and annuities placed strategically can provide a great peace of mind that the retirees will never run out of money. As I always say, the key is the agent providing the right advice, maintaining honesty and walking away from an annuity sale when it doesn't fit the client's needs.


While I agree with you for the most part, there are of course expceptions to your statement that people over 50-55 should not allocate any money to Variable Annuities. There are many factors that must be taken into consideration.

First, and most important, would be the risk tolerance of the client. While there are more inherent risks in a Variable Annuity vs. a Fixed or Indexed Annuity, there are clients that wish to take on that risk.

Second, the classification and goals of the client's money must be considered. For example, a client with a Roth IRA may wish to use that money as a death benefit. In that scenario, depending on the current annuity product market, the client might be better off allocating the funds to a Variable Annuity with strong market exposure and attach a death benefit rider to the contract. Since the client cannot use life insurance in this scenario (due to the money being qualified funds) this might be the best situation. There will be no RMD's to negatively affect the death benefit rider and there is a possibility the sub accounts may out-perform the rider and leave more to the beneficiaries than the guarantee. If we would have used an indexed annuity, we could have given the client similar guarantees but without the potential to out-perform (due to the caps and the broad index allocations). This is just one example of how a Variable Annuity might be able to offer an additional benefit.

Lastly, it greatly depends on the product environment in general. In 2012 we should see a reduction in benefits on Variable Annuity riders giving Indexed Annuities a distinct advantage.

Don't get me wrong GaInsPro. For the most part I agree with you. However, I think there are obviously objections.
 
So what is your take on this article?
Variable Annuities No Longer Get a Bad Rap - WSJ.com

Wow, sounds like someone had some spare time before Christmas- great reply to the original question though.

As far as the previous post regarding variable annuities vs FIA's, should be a no brainer for anyone over 50-55. Most of the VA's lost a ton of money in the years the markets melted down and were in many cases 403B's where the annuity holders were unaware of their inability to change out of VA to Fixed. Spoke with a lot of clients that said their agent wouldn't return their calls when the 2008 debacle occurred.

Most independent studies will reveal there's no place for VA's instead one would be in better position with Mutual Funds- lower service charges, easier to move from securities to bonds rapidly...I could go on. In reality, VA's and low interest fixed annuities are what has given the industry a bad name, along with high pressure insurance salespersons with limited products and poor training.

Any annuity agent should have proper training- I actually think anyone converting retirement plans to annuities should have at minimum a Series 65 license, because after all you are providing financial advice and I also firmly believe you need a financial department to turn the client's financial information over and let them help develop an independent recommendation from a broad spectrum of annuity options. Add to this, complete disclosure, giving the perspective client a broad picture of what they are getting into. Annuities are excellent ways of providing income for life to ensure a client's pension and SS are enhanced when the COLA's on both slow down and medical costs increase.

Only after all of these steps are performed, then give the client an opportunity to buy an annuity- never sell them, especially with a FIA, because you are going to have to meet with them each year to review the performance and determine what index you are going to select for the coming year.

Granted, if the markets surge in the coming years, the annuity holders will moan and groan as the caps will limit their participation in the profits of the market growth, but seriously, do any of us feel comfortable with the idea that this is going to happen? With this country's debt problems, the financials holding so much of the European debt, the growing strain the budget is going to get hit with the costs associated with the aging baby boomers and the fed retirees, one would have to be a highly optimistic individual to think the markets are going to do anything but sawtooth up and down in the coming years. Someone intrigued by buying and selling stocks based on technicals can and probably will stand to make money, but most retirees don't want to do this- they want to kick back, travel, play golf, play with the grandbabies, etc and annuities placed strategically can provide a great peace of mind that the retirees will never run out of money. As I always say, the key is the agent providing the right advice, maintaining honesty and walking away from an annuity sale when it doesn't fit the client's needs.
 
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