Answering Machines and DNC Rules

[djs]

John, Thank you for challenging me on this point. It has been too long since I read the regulations, and I stand corrected. The regulations are here: Unwanted Telephone Marketing Calls

"Calls using artificial or prerecorded voice messages – including those that do not use autodialers – may not be made to home phone numbers except for:

• emergency calls needed to ensure the consumer’s health and safety;
• calls for which you have given prior express consent;
• non-commercial calls;
• calls that don’t include or introduce any unsolicited advertisements or constitute telephone solicitations;
• calls by, or on behalf of, tax-exempt non-profit organizations; or
• calls from entities with which you have an EBR. "

The phrase "including those that do not use autodialers" means that, unless one has an EBR, you cannot leave a canned message on a home recorder, even with the invitation to leave a message. I am sure this goes beyond what the rulemakers had in mind, but a careful reading makes it clear what the rule is. Better safe than sorry.

Final resolve: I will not leave a canned message from now on, even if it would be nearly impossible to distinguish from my ad lib message. Additionally, any message at all may be too much, as in my former post.

Read this carefully. If you think this says you can't manually dial, and then leave a prerecorded message if someone doesn't answer, I think you are misreading it. Of course, it's worded that way intentionally, but it's not what it implies or says.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, just my interpretation of the rule. You would probably be able to defend this in court, but, I wouldn't want to take the chance.

The rule says you can't dial with the intent of leaving a message. There is a comment in the rule that this pertains to automatically dialed and prerecorded calls. In your case, there is no automatic, since you have to press a button to leave the message, and this is only done after getting express permission from the statement 'leave a message after the beep', which clearly allows you to leave the message.

So if you read it carefully, you can't have the system dial and when answered, start spewing 'Hi this is Joe with Low Cost Insurance....'. You can have it dial, and if they answer, speak to them, and if they don't answer, leave a pre-recorded message.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

You're probably right. Let's use a scenario of a referral. One of my clients says "hey, call my buddy from work - here's his number."

I call his buddy, get a machine and leave a message. The guy calls back all pissed off, says he doesn't want insurance, is pissed that I got his number and since he's on the DNC list and I left a message he now wants to sue me for $2,500.

I don't think so.

However, if you're dialing 50 numbers and hour and leaving messages how is someone supposed to tell the difference between your "real" message and a pre-recorded message? They can't, and if they really want to kick and scream now you have to defend yourself.

In the end = not worth it.

 

[J.R.]

I call his buddy, get a machine and leave a message. The guy calls back all pissed off, says he doesn't want insurance, is pissed that I got his number and since he's on the DNC list and I left a message he now wants to sue me for $2,500.

If he has a residential number and is on the DNC list how do you think he would not have grounds to report you in that instance since you do not have an established relationship with him, are not a non-profit organization and are not calling to conduct a survey?

I think Bob and yourself are right about being somewhat safe to leave messages, as long as you don't use an automatic machine. However, it is probably better to spend the $100 and talk with a lawyer. I haven't had to worry about the DNC list much in the past due to calling small businesses, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to ensure that everything is in the clear prior to calling residences.

It's not worth the risk to me because we all know that lawyers get paid to manipulate the legal code and you could very well piss off somebody and jeopardize your business.

 

[djs]

Absolutely true. The referrals will get you in trouble if you don't check the do not call list. Usually doesn't happen, but it could.

There are safe harbor provisions in the do not call rules for the truly innocent mistakes, such as a misdialed number, but it is a minefield trying to walk all of the nuances of the rules.

Do not call rules for businesses are coming. So many people are telemarketing small businesses that the owners are now wanting similar rules for incoming sales pitches. There are some mornings I have trouble making an outbound call through all of the incoming telemarketing on my business line. No, I really don't need to be on the first page of google. No, I don't need a credit card machine. No, your advertising isn't any better than the next guys. No, I don't need health insurance. Oops, gone to far now

Dan

 

[retread]

djs: You can have it dial, and if they answer, speak to them, and if they don't answer, leave a pre-recorded message.
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>This is the way I have been operating, and I thought this was correct... until now.
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healthagent: However, if you're dialing 50 numbers and hour and leaving messages how is someone supposed to tell the difference between your "real" message and a pre-recorded message? They can't, and if they really want to kick and scream now you have to defend yourself.
In the end = not worth it.

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>I agree. That's why I am changing my tactic. I was convinced I was correctly following the rules, but since the issue has been clouded, I think it is prudent to not take any chances. Why expose yourself?

The overriding consideration is: why take the chance you will push a prospect away? My program allows me to log this for a call-back. Simple. And if I never reach him/her by phone? Drop a card or letter. One can be persistent without being obnoxious.

 

[retread]

BTW, I did some more research on this and find that most state's Public Utility Commission (PUC) regulations cover this subject under the heading of "Automatic Dialing and Announcing Devices" (ADAD).

The gist of these state modifications of the previous quote on Federal regulations I posted, is that they may allow a live operator to intervene and ask permission to play a pre-recorded message.

Again, this bolsters my view that a canned message cannot be played without the called party's consent, and this must be done "live", thereby precluding the method of leaving a call back message on an answering machine.

No need to drone on about this unless you really want to exhaust the subject. I merely post this to give you the term "ADAD".

 

[mcday]

A lot of these auto-dialers offer the option to leave a pre-recorded message on the answering machine.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should but I wonder if they (makers of the auto-dialers) know something we don't know or if they're just trying to add selling features.

In the end, it all comes down to whether or not you want to risk a $11k complaint. I'm not in a position to afford this kind of penalty. So, I'll be staying away from the voicemail messages.

Thanks for all the insight.

 

[djs]

A lot of these auto-dialers offer the option to leave a pre-recorded message on the answering machine.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should but I wonder if they (makers of the auto-dialers) know something we don't know or if they're just trying to add selling features.

In the end, it all comes down to whether or not you want to risk a $11k complaint. I'm not in a position to afford this kind of penalty. So, I'll be staying away from the voicemail messages.

Thanks for all the insight.

Well, answering machine marketing is probably one of the least efficient ways to market. For a very short time, it was cheap, and since you could have a system make a few thousand calls a day, it only took a very low percentage return to make it work. This isn't allowed anymore, though people still try.

Many companies have existing business relationships and use autodialers to leave messages, such as 'Dont forget your dentist appointment on Friday', or if you have a department store card, the infamous sale announcement. These are still legal, and get around all do not call rules (with the 90 day / 18 month clauses in mind).

I don't think they work well for insurance though. If your cold-calling, leaving messages probably doesn't get you many deals.

Dan

 

[honestagent]

I just got my scrubbed residential list this morning and have started making phone calls myself. In an hour, I've had 3 conversations and had several non-working numbers. The majority have been no answer or answering machines.

Since there are so many answering machines, I'm wondering if I shouldn't leave some kind of message.

Are there any DNC rules about leaving a Voice Mail?

If it is legal, I would like to leave a message and perhaps get a call back every once in awhile.

Any insight you have would be appreciated.

Hi. On what product are you calling? If it's Med. Adv., CMS has a marketing provision that is: we cannot make no more than 3 contacts in __- # of months/days. I cannot recall if its 90 days or more.. and I'm unsure if voice mail counts and or if it's just dials....

Does anybody know....?