Assurant - replacing all "old" plans

[Crabcake Johnny]

I am confused how you all sell Assurant in the first place.

Put benefits and price side to side with BCBS (of any state), Humana, Aetna, Unicare, and they get beat hands down 99% of the time.

Some of their plans have annual max and out patient max, which I refuse to sell. Is that what you are selling? Maybe their HSA is competative in some markets?

99% of my clients ask for and purchase co pays, call me crazy I go with the flow... On Co-pay plans I am sitting here tonight running Assurant comparison in 10 of the states I represent they are not even on the radar in terms of competative pricing, even HSA - here in Texas a 52 year old couple BCBS was HALF their price, co-pay plans aren't close either.

I would love to know what Assurant products you could possibly sell in any volume, as every time we do a side by side they are not even remotely close in pricing.

I really don't want to argue benefits of other companies - but pure price, they are very high right now across the board.

p.s. And no they should not pay you "new business' commissions on plan change - that isn't the deal... Go put them on another carrier if you need to play that game (if they qualify).

No Humana and no Unicare in MD. Coventry doesn't have any RX benefits on their 2500 plan which is their only competitive plan plus Coventry is accept/reject only. Aetna is more expensive than Assurant in MD with far less benefits. BX caps drugs at $500 with other lacking benefits. GR in MD declines left and right when clients are on meds so I actually write a great deal of Assurant.

GR also won't cover any reproductive problems in MD within the 1st 6 months. I always tell my female clients about that and most pass after they know about that exclusion and are willing to pay more Assurant. I also sell a fair amount of maternity here and that knocks GR out of the picture - they don't offer it here.

 

[somarco]

Health carriers and the way they manage their block is different from P&C, or almost any other line. Two factors come in to play that will seriously erode a block if not carefully managed.

Health care inflation is double digit. Older plans with fixed copays quickly become very expensive. BX still has plans on the books here in GA with $15 office copays (no limit) and $20 Rx copay with little or no deductible. These plans quickly become overpriced in a relatively short time.

A home or auto can and will deteriorate over time, but that does not mean it becomes a higher priced risk. Your overall health can and usually does change over time, but this has little effect on life insurance since most plans sold are term and most term plans don't stay on the books beyond 3 years.

Health is different. When rates increase, healthy people make a choice to move to another carrier . . . except for those who are too lazy to make a change. Over time, business written in 2002 that is still on the book has become quite costly. Some of it due to older plan design, some of it is caused by younger, healthier people leaving the block and leaving behind the older, sicker crowd.

Loss ratios deteriorate rather quickly. PLR's that run 40 - 60% on first year block have deteriorated to the 80 -90 percentile by the third year. When you get to the fifth year you typically see 100%+ unless the carrier has dramatically increased rates to stablize the losses.

More often than not there is nothing they can do in the form of rate increases on a dwindling population, so they mothball older policy forms with rich, first dollar benefits and replace them with plans that have higher copays & deductible. They will sometimes throw in a few new benefits to make the transition more palatable.

Some folks will roll over to the newer plans because they like the carrier while the rest will roll because they have no choice.

Time has always (at least the last 5 yrs or so) been a high priced carrier but in the past they were in the hunt and you could make a case for paying a little more. Except in a few situations I have not seen that in GA for quite some time.

I don't sell on price but I do sell on value and the value from Time policies just isn't there 95% of the time. They sell a fair amount in GA, mostly the Right Start (40% of sales last time I had a figure). The rest is via third party endorsement.

Of course several agents like the 12 month commission advance and can justify almost anything to earn a bigger check vs. as earned with other carriers (or even 6 - 9 month advance).

I got a Time renewal in the mail yesterday on a family HSA with a $5700 deductible. Premium is increasing 12%. With the healthy discount the renewal will be about where it is now.

I ran numbers against carriers that have revamped their product and entered that zip code (Coventry, Aetna & Humana) and Time is still the best.

I think I have maybe $40k with Time and don't see it increasing any time soon.

They don't have what it takes to go head to head and match up on value in this market place.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Of course several agents like the 12 month commission advance and can justify almost anything to earn a bigger check vs. as earned with other carriers (or even 6 - 9 month advance).
.

I get advanced on GR and Assurant so what's the difference. It's also far easier to sell GR:

*Better name recognition
*Better network discounts
*Cheaper plan
*Plans are easier to understand

It's 5X easier for me to sell GR than Assurant. But I do not work "healthy" internet leads. I work telemarketed leads from small biz owners. About 85% of who I write up are small biz owners - they are 45+ and most are on meds and have conditions. GR declines - flat out.

When they don't decline they rider. I can suggest the rider as opposed to paying $100+ more for the condition to be covered by Assurant - most take Assurant. Why?

These are not broke internet leads screaming about "the lowest rate." My average client is already paying $700+ for family coverage.

Case in point was my last deal - family of 3 paying $780 currently. GR came in $135 lower than Assurant but with two exclusions. Taking Assurant even with the higher price was $510. So for them they're saving $270 with no exclusions.

Was that the best deal? No and I recommended they go with GR. They should have taken the riders in their case. But I present the options, explain the options and they choose.

If I had it my way GR would be 90% of my sales. Doesn't work out that way. Heath-filtered internet leads? Yes - it would work out that way. But I don't and never will buy leads unless the leads are 100% small biz owners.

 

[dmiller90]

Its like the weather with some agents, or ADD not quite sure?, but it makes for some entertaining reading. Most dont stay focused, on anything, (leads) (carriers), its whatever they justify or reason in their own head to feel competent with their clients and on this board. I am sure in a week things will change. AHCP no longer will be offering 12 month advances on GR, so I am sure Assurant will be the flavour of the day.
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[Crabcake Johnny]

Who says I'm with AHCP?

 

[TXINSURANCE]

These are not broke internet leads screaming about "the lowest rate." My average client is already paying $700+ for family coverage.

I guess it depends on what state you are in, what competition you have in your state and what type of lead you are working. We work broke Internet leads, and Assurant is too expensive to sell in volume - even if you can sell it they will cancel when other reputable carriers in the market are half price, retention will be a problem (again these are not small biz owners, they are Internet people).

Unicare, GR and Assurant ALL have plans with annual maxes and out patient maxes.

Sure, but I have never sold those plans. I don't sell chopped up plans, never have. Assurant in the agent community I converse with is very much frowned upon as a chopped up plan, always has been - this hasn't necessarily been my view since I know all plans have ins and outs , I tend to have a more open mind about reality of individual plans.

Sounds an awful lot like the HBD or e-heath's version of selling insurance. Their is nothing wrong with selling on price, but you cannot ask who sells Assurant when you're strictly looking at price and not benefits.

It is so hard to compare apples to apples in this biz, there is no standardization of plans. We aren't even close to HBD or EHEALTH style of selling, we really look into underwriting (sometimes too much) and try to accommodate pre-ex , eliminate rate up or waivers as much as possible.

Your points are VERY well taken - but comparing insurance carriers is like having a chevy vs. ford argument to some extent since benefits are not standardized. I can only tell you since I don't sell chopped up plans (like Right Start with caps), when you compare top level plans Assurant in most of my markets is through the roof.

That being said there might be a niche for them - look back period? certain pre-ex conditions? 24 month rate lock? The 10k maternity rider which is cheap?

I am just struggling how to throw them in the mix - what do they do better than other carriers? Every carrier has some spin or niche, I just need to figure out where their place is in my operation. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[somarco]

Dave, you are right. Things change.

Last yr my primary carrier was GR. The year before it was KP. Now it is Humana. In 6 months, who knows?

I offer my clients the best value for their situation. We look at plan design, network coverage, underwriting (of course!) and premium. I show them several plans side by side, pointing out the differences, and let them decide.

More often than not they follow my lead and pick the plan with the higher deductible & no copays.

I tried selling Time last year when they introduced the new policy series. Some of their stuff actually made sense, especially with the multi-year rate guarantee and healthy discount. At the time they had the only viable alternative to BX for maternity outside of greater Atlanta.

Now GR & Humana have maternity options so there are fewer reasons to show Time.

Competition is good. Some of the business I wrote with KP or GR in the past has rolled over to Humana. Not much, but some. Mostly the folks who insist on copay plans. I still haven't found any reason to move folks off the GR Plan 100 to anything else and all of my GR HSA plans are still intact.

I really don't care if a carrier advances or not. If they want to offer a junk plan like Saver, Right Start or something with no Rx (like some of the Humana plans) that is their choice, but I won't be selling them.

I had a guy last week who was insistent on the GR Saver plan. That was, until I asked him how he would pay for meds that could run $2k+ per month. He decided it was worth the extra $30 to get a plan with full Rx.

In the end, if you don't do what is right for your client you will never survive in this business.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

I was extremely excited when Coventry hit MD - great name recognition in my state and from what the rep told me it was probably going to be most of my business.

Then they launched - accept/reject - if anyone is on meds it's a decline. I saw the pricing for the 2,500 deductible plan and it was fantastic....until I saw no RX benefits on that plan.

And this is what I have to work with. BX in my state has no published guidelines and 6/8 wks for underwriting. They decline more than then accept.

Humana, World, Unicare? Not here. Aetna? Rates through the ceiling. I'm playing with GR and Assurant and that's it.

If GR blew out of the state and Assurant jacked the rates any more than they are I would not be able to write in MD.