Contracting Questions

[Joe Moore]

Since you do not release, you must believe you own the agent. You sir, and your agency, are dishonest.

I can name you several agencies that will release. Let's start with Health Choice One and Ritter Insurance Marketing. Senior Market Sales has a pre-nup on file that they gave me promising an unconditional release. I have the same from Rex Snyder in Arizona. (Guess you don't know other marketers).

As far as would I release, absolutely. If an agent doesn't want to work with me, I would not force that agent. And why would I want to work with an agent that doesn't want to work with me.

You are no better than Bob Bever at RBI, Patrick Rodriguez at AGA, and Parker & Assoc.

Let me say this again so you can hear me:

YOU ARE DISHONEST

Good luck spamming this board in the future.

Rick

No, Mr. Green Man we are not Dishonest.

We will probably be much more truthful, helpful and product knowledgeable than most marketers. When we spend $100,000+ a year recruiting, and an agent finds another marketer that will give 5% more, I don't feel an obligation to give a release.

This is just like you bringing a prospect to the attention of your $100/month insurance policy, and they search the world over and find it for $98. Suddenly, they want to drop your newly written policy for the $2 difference.I am not sure you would like this situation.

For example, one of our companies considers the 100% contract as the "street" contract. Yes, we have the right to go to the 105%, if we see a reason to-without asking for permission. The way we try to handle it is to give the agent a raise when they get to $10,000 of annual volume. If the agent is not doing this amount, we feel they are not deserving of the higher contract. However, somebody out there would give it to them on the front-end.

I will stand by my statement, there must be a reason for a release. If you were running our operation, you would see it the same way.

I am familiar with some of the marketers you mentioned, but why would you go into a contract with the expectation of hoping to find a better deal with the company? Just quit writing for that company. There are a lot of companies out there looking for business.

And no, I am not trying to spam this board.
And I am sure not trying to throw rocks at anybody like a few people seem to want to do on this board.

I didn't really realize I would have to fight off some strong and slanderous statements when I started posting here. I am not really mad at anyone, but seems I walked into a hornet's nest here.

Sorry if you don't like me, but I am not going to be dishonest with you or anyone. I am telling you how I feel. I did not start this business 21 years ago as a one-man show to have not learned a few things.

By the way, please quote me correctly, when you say, "since you don't release", which is simply not true. We have given many releases. Our "conditional release" protects not only us, but the agent wanting to come back to us.

Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing
PO Box 1954
Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004

 

[jdeasy]

No, Mr. Green Man we are not Dishonest.

We will probably be much more truthful, helpful and product knowledgeable than most marketers. When we spend $100,000+ a year recruiting, and an agent finds another marketer that will give 5% more, I don't feel an obligation to give a release.

This is just like you bringing a prospect to the attention of your $100/month insurance policy, and they search the world over and find it for $98. Suddenly, they want to drop your newly written policy for the $2 difference.I am not sure you would like this situation.

For example, one of our companies considers the 100% contract as the "street" contract. Yes, we have the right to go to the 105%, if we see a reason to-without asking for permission. The way we try to handle it is to give the agent a raise when they get to $10,000 of annual volume. If the agent is not doing this amount, we feel they are not deserving of the higher contract. However, somebody out there would give it to them on the front-end.

I will stand by my statement, there must be a reason for a release. If you were running our operation, you would see it the same way.

I am familiar with some of the marketers you mentioned, but why would you go into a contract with the expectation of hoping to find a better deal with the company? Just quit writing for that company. There are a lot of companies out there looking for business.

And no, I am not trying to spam this board.
And I am sure not trying to throw rocks at anybody like a few people seem to want to do on this board.

I didn't really realize I would have to fight off some strong and slanderous statements when I started posting here. I am not really mad at anyone, but seems I walked into a hornet's nest here.

Sorry if you don't like me, but I am not going to be dishonest with you or anyone. I am telling you how I feel. I did not start this business 21 years ago as a one-man show to have not learned a few things.

By the way, please quote me correctly, when you say, "since you don't release", which is simply not true. We have given many releases. Our "conditional release" protects not only us, but the agent wanting to come back to us.

Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing
PO Box 1954
Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004

He may not like the prospect dropping his coverage for the cheaper one, but, he can't force the policy holder to keep it.

I would not work for you without a prenup for an immediate release. I can mname you many IMO's that will grant releases on request.

I can also name many that won't. One is Parker and Assoc. I've been trying to get realeased from them for 6 months now. Fortunately, I only have one contract with them and I'm just not writing that company for 12 months and then they won't have a choice on my leaving.

I've that the more crooked a organization, the harder it is to get released from them.

If you are correct and the agent is just leaving for what he thinks is a better deal that doesn't pan out, wouldn't he then want to come back to you anyway? He would then be more loyal than he was before he knew that you were the real deal. Of course, if you are not the real deal that you claim to be, he ain't coming back.

I think it's obvious which scenario applies in your case.

 

[Joe Moore]

If you are correct and the agent is just leaving for what he thinks is a better deal that doesn't pan out, wouldn't he then want to come back to you anyway? He would then be more loyal than he was before he knew that you were the real deal. Of course, if you are not the real deal that you claim to be, he ain't coming back.

We have had many agents to come back to us under this situation. And no, we don't "own" the agents. But, when we have spent large dollars for recruiting (which the insurance company or some other IMO did not have to spend to get this agent contracted), it is simply not right to allow the agent to walk off to the best 5 cent more offer.

We have spent our dollars to bring this agent into our marketing organization, and why should some other marketing organization reap the rewards for no dollars spent?

We are not claiming to be any "real deal", but if any of our contracted agents are monitoring this post, I would welcome them to comment on how they are treated by us.

However, just last week we released an agent (with no conditions) to go directly with a company that we did not have enough volume to keep our IMO contract. It was a minor part of our marketing efforts.

I am sure this happens to all Marketing Organizations at some time or another.

Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing
PO Box 1954
Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004

 

[Newby]

We have had many agents to come back to us under this situation. And no, we don't "own" the agents. But, when we have spent large dollars for recruiting (which the insurance company or some other IMO did not have to spend to get this agent contracted), it is simply not right to allow the agent to walk off to the best 5 cent more offer.

We have spent our dollars to bring this agent into our marketing organization, and why should some other marketing organization reap the rewards for no dollars spent?

We are not claiming to be any "real deal", but if any of our contracted agents are monitoring this post, I would welcome them to comment on how they are treated by us.

However, just last week we released an agent (with no conditions) to go directly with a company that we did not have enough volume to keep our IMO contract. It was a minor part of our marketing efforts.

I am sure this happens to all Marketing Organizations at some time or another.

Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing
PO Box 1954
Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004

I can vouch for Joe. I am the agent he released last week. Oxford changed the commission structure for some IMO's that weren't doing enough volume through them.

Joe's a good guy and has been very helpful to me. In fact some of the information I've posted on this board that has helped many FE agents has come to me through Joe Moore.

When I was looking for good smoker rates, I just called Joe and he sent me the Citizen's Security info. I in turn posted that same info here and many agents thanked me for it and benefited from it. (Citizens Security has since changed their rate structure and no longer has that advantage. Joe also gave me advance info about that.)

That is where a good IMO like Joe Moore can be very helpful. Giving you info about which company is better in particular situations.

 

[GreenSky]

I can vouch for Joe. I am the agent he released last week. Oxford changed the commission structure for some IMO's that weren't doing enough volume through them.

Joe's a good guy and has been very helpful to me. In fact some of the information I've posted on this board that has helped many FE agents has come to me through Joe Moore.

When I was looking for good smoker rates, I just called Joe and he sent me the Citizen's Security info. I in turn posted that same info here and many agents thanked me for it and benefited from it. (Citizens Security has since changed their rate structure and no longer has that advantage. Joe also gave me advance info about that.)

That is where a good IMO like Joe Moore can be very helpful. Giving you info about which company is better in particular situations.

Joe may be a good guy but the fact is he does not release an agent unless he feels it's for the right reason. If you told him you wanted to be release from another of his carriers because you were offered a higher commission would have got you a much different answer - by his own admission.

I stand by statement that any marketer that is not willing to give you a pre-nup is dishonest. I will never be help captive by an IMO/FMO again.

Rick

 

[GreenSky]

We have had many agents to come back to us under this situation. And no, we don't "own" the agents. But, when we have spent large dollars for recruiting (which the insurance company or some other IMO did not have to spend to get this agent contracted), it is simply not right to allow the agent to walk off to the best 5 cent more offer.

We have spent our dollars to bring this agent into our marketing organization, and why should some other marketing organization reap the rewards for no dollars spent?

When you control how much an agent can earn on a particular policy how can you say you don't "own" them.

By offering a pre-nup like an honest marketer will do releases the agent from the servitude clause that he/she never signed.

By the way, do you specify the release procedures in your contract? For example, do you agents know that to get away from you as their upline for UHC they must go without writing business for 6 months? I already know the answer - it's no. You do not disclose this.

I don't have to worry about this with my contracts because I have a pre-nup for each of the marketers with which I work. And do you know why? It just makes certain of their honestly.

If an agent leaves you for 5%, then you sure haven't given that agent much value, have you. You have shown your honesty to this board.

Rick

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

The IMO's costs involved in recruiting is a not our problem. Even employees are not "captive."

Say you run a company that only hires salaried employees with significant recruiting costs.

You hire Joe for your HR department, offer $42,000 and Joe accepts. 2 months later another company gets back to Joe and offers him $46,000 and it's a shorter commute.

In the mean time Joe doesn't like his current environment or his boss. Can Joe quit? Should Joe be able to quit? You bet your ass Joe will quit. Under your model, since you spent a lot of money hiring Joe he cannot quit? Why?

And that's an employee situation! What right does ANY IMO have to lock an independent contractor down? It's unethical at best - borderline illegal if it's not in his contract.

I've looked through quite a few contracts I've signed and nowhere is the mystical "6 months without writing business" clause to be found.

Now, I'm not an attorney but I'm pretty sure that in a court of law an IMO or carrier could not apply contractual conditions that are not stated in the contract.

But here's the truth: When you treat agents right they won't blow out for an extra 2% - they won't even blow out for an extra 5%. And if you have a heavy hitter they deserve to be bumped up.

Some pikers who barely writes a deal wants to go agency hopping? Good riddance. Why would any IMO want to hold onto those boneheads?

 

[jdeasy]

I can vouch for Joe. I am the agent he released last week. Oxford changed the commission structure for some IMO's that weren't doing enough volume through them.

Joe's a good guy and has been very helpful to me. In fact some of the information I've posted on this board that has helped many FE agents has come to me through Joe Moore.

When I was looking for good smoker rates, I just called Joe and he sent me the Citizen's Security info. I in turn posted that same info here and many agents thanked me for it and benefited from it. (Citizens Security has since changed their rate structure and no longer has that advantage. Joe also gave me advance info about that.)

That is where a good IMO like Joe Moore can be very helpful. Giving you info about which company is better in particular situations.

It was a conditional release. And the conditions were of his deciding, not your's. I believe he released you, but, had he alone decided to not grant the release, you would still be contracted with him.

I learned my lesson the hard way to not deal with folks like this.

 

[Winter_123]

I can vouch for Joe. I am the agent he released last week. Oxford changed the commission structure for some IMO's that weren't doing enough volume through them.

Sounds to me like Joe had contracts with agents where he was obligated to pay a certain level of commission but his payout from the IMO was reduced due to lack of volume, thus reducing his spread/override and making his contracts with agents either a liability, a wash, or a thin margin arrangement. I dont doubt for a minute that an IMO would cheerfully give a release in that type of arrangement.

I think, though, that the question asked was more about whether he offered a release if the agent wanted it rather than if the IMO would be willing to cull out some dog contracts if the opportunity should arise. Again, no one doubts that it is all about the IMO.

Winter

 

[MedSuppPro]

You may get along famously for a couple of months, and then it may get sour. Make sure you know your contractural obligations. CONTRACTS RULE. Some clauses in these contracts can be onerous. I refuse to sign anything I will not live up to, and if it is in writing, you better get any exception in writing. Verbal promises are no good. And make sure it gets signed... and get a copy. This will avoid a lot of pain later should it get nasty. You may need to read this contract over several times, both now and in the future.

This has been a good thread. I debated starting a new one to get away from this thread's low life IMO bottom feeder "db" whom never contributes. Those whom participate on a regular basis can see through these db's coming on trying to gain business, and they never impart any knowledge. $100,000 losers... If you pay out $100,000, you can afford to pay for a banner on this site.

Here is my question. What does a release look like? Recently, I have been speaking with several AETNA FMO's. I have one whom I requested a release. We are now hung up on the FMO trying to add additional language to their release. He wants a release to be granted if I have no debit balance. I want a definition of "debit balance" and besides his protection is within the carrier contract, not by holding-up my release. He now is ignoring this concern and I've got cold feet. "Debit balance" could include advancements. So, If we wish to part in January, then I would have to wait 12 months for an AEP due to advancements being considered a "debit balance". I hate working with control freaks whom mess with my rice bowl.

Rick, who is your AETNA FMO? (Please, no pm's) I still believe we should form a COOP!