HBW Insurance & Financial Services, Inc?

[Guest]

There is nothing intrinsically bad about MLM, no matter what the product is. I've never been part of one and while I don't know anyone who has ever made any money at one, I don't doubt that it happens.

All the people at Primerica, Capital Choice, UA, and others can't ALL be losing money or these would have failed years ago.

I would venture that the wash-out rate of MLM is no higher or lower than that of either captive OR independent insurance agency.

And I could make a strong argument that if you look closely at the structure of the insurance industry with its override and bonus architecture, it has a lot in common with the network marketing model.

People say MLM is a pyramid scheme where those at the top make the most money. Well, there is nothing so "pyramid" as a corporate model where the CEO and senior execs make most of the money while the rank/file workers at the base make minimum wage.

I think that it is very possible for a group of honest insurance people to create a LIMITED network structure with good products such that those who wish to build an agency by recruiting and training (and who are perhaps good at both) would have that option. I'm sure there is a model that would provide a way for someone to leverage his/her time and effort via overrides on those he recruits and trains... and same for everyone else "down the line."

I don't know much about HBW except that it used to be joined at the hip with AIG's American General. I don't know much about Primerica except that I'm told their products are proprietary and not very good. Same for UA (assuming what I'm told is true.)

I would take the bet that IF there was a network marketing structure that had fair commissions, good products, and which (obviously) had the entire licensing, appointment, and commission architecture such that you could build an agency by just plugging your recruits into it and use their training methods, that a lot of agents would be drawn to it. Name me an IMO/FMO that makes it "easy" to build and run a multi-agent operation. Is there one?

I'm quite good at recruiting and training. I've done a lot of hiring and teaching in my day. I would not want to do it all the time, but selling gets one-dimensional at times and I often would like a "change." But if I wanted to build an agency, I'd have to build the infrastructure with it. There is nothing I know of that you can "take out of the box" like you can with either a franchise or an MLM.

For all the abuses I've read about when it comes to PA, and HBW, and UA, I've read the same about well-known captive carriers.

My point is to try to bring a bit of balance to this topic. It is not MLM or network marketing that is bad... it is the companies and the people who run them. "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, ...." Julius Caesar (I, ii, 140-141)

 

[xrac]

Sometimes Al has good stuff to say. Thanks!

 

[gzpxyj]

As an experienced agent I can start at a 105% contract with HBW and no minimum production requirement to keep that. I doubt you will find that in many IMOs. Let's say you have an IMO that pays you 105% and you want to hire sub agents. You have to give them a hair cut on commissions and bring them in at 100% or lower. With HBW I can hire another agent at the same 105% contract as me and HBW will still pay me 7% overrides on that agents production. That agent can in turn hire another agent at 105% commission and HBW will pay him 7% overrides and they will pay me 5% overrides on that agents production. Plus it all counts towards even higher commision levels.

What you said is correct with HBW. But the model is based on agency development, not just hiring all experienced agents at 105%. Otherwise, the model is un-sustainable. The math will tell you that HBW will go broke if there are too many layers of expeirenced agents with many generations over-ride. The insurance companies can only pay IMO certain percentage of premium. That is the hard number.
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There is nothing intrinsically bad about MLM, no matter what the product is. I've never been part of one and while I don't know anyone who has ever made any money at one, I don't doubt that it happens.

All the people at Primerica, Capital Choice, UA, and others can't ALL be losing money or these would have failed years ago.

I would venture that the wash-out rate of MLM is no higher or lower than that of either captive OR independent insurance agency.

And I could make a strong argument that if you look closely at the structure of the insurance industry with its override and bonus architecture, it has a lot in common with the network marketing model.

People say MLM is a pyramid scheme where those at the top make the most money. Well, there is nothing so "pyramid" as a corporate model where the CEO and senior execs make most of the money while the rank/file workers at the base make minimum wage.

I think that it is very possible for a group of honest insurance people to create a LIMITED network structure with good products such that those who wish to build an agency by recruiting and training (and who are perhaps good at both) would have that option. I'm sure there is a model that would provide a way for someone to leverage his/her time and effort via overrides on those he recruits and trains... and same for everyone else "down the line."

I don't know much about HBW except that it used to be joined at the hip with AIG's American General. I don't know much about Primerica except that I'm told their products are proprietary and not very good. Same for UA (assuming what I'm told is true.)

I would take the bet that IF there was a network marketing structure that had fair commissions, good products, and which (obviously) had the entire licensing, appointment, and commission architecture such that you could build an agency by just plugging your recruits into it and use their training methods, that a lot of agents would be drawn to it. Name me an IMO/FMO that makes it "easy" to build and run a multi-agent operation. Is there one?

I'm quite good at recruiting and training. I've done a lot of hiring and teaching in my day. I would not want to do it all the time, but selling gets one-dimensional at times and I often would like a "change." But if I wanted to build an agency, I'd have to build the infrastructure with it. There is nothing I know of that you can "take out of the box" like you can with either a franchise or an MLM.

For all the abuses I've read about when it comes to PA, and HBW, and UA, I've read the same about well-known captive carriers.

My point is to try to bring a bit of balance to this topic. It is not MLM or network marketing that is bad... it is the companies and the people who run them. "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, ...." Julius Caesar (I, ii, 140-141)

Well said.
For many of independent agencies, you (including myself) are building an MLM yourself through insurance companies although not through your own agency. The only difference is the pay to the agents. You hire more agents to expand your IMO, the agents hire more agents to get over-ride through insurance companies and you get a piece of pie also. So what inheriant difference your operation has compared with MLM model from the agency level? Not much.

 

[SalemInsuranceGuy]

What you said is correct with HBW. But the model is based on agency development, not just hiring all experienced agents at 105%. Otherwise, the model is un-sustainable. The math will tell you that HBW will go broke if there are too many layers of expeirenced agents with many generations over-ride. The insurance companies can only pay IMO certain percentage of premium. That is the hard number.

You are correct that it is based on the agency development. However, you have the choice of hiring only experienced agents if you like or hiring non experienced or a combination of the two.

For example as an AVP it's 105%. So I can hire an agent at any of the following levels 60%, 65%. 75%. 85%, or 95% and they would be considered in my base shop. Or I can hire an agent on at the same level as me at 105% and still get paid a 7% override even though we're both at the same contract level.

As far as being unsustainable let's take a look at the math. First there are 2 levels above AVP 105% which is EVP 110% and NDA 115%. So to show HBWs max payout lets say you made it to the top as an NDA at 115% on personal production. Now let's say you have 2 other levels of NDAs under you just to max out HBWs payout. So you get paid 7% on the first level and 3% on the second level. That's a total of 10% max payout in overrides because they don't go any deeper than 2 levels. Now add your 115% to the 10% and you have a total max payout of 125% from HBW to their agents. I'm not sure what HBW is getting paid but I'd venture to guess 145% or so? Maybe more or less. I'm just guessing here. But that leaves them 20% on all that business. I certainly think it's sustainable.

I think that's the unique thing about HBW is you don't have to recruit. You get every level based on production alone. So for a high personal producer he can reach the same level as someone who's only a recruiter, or someone who does a little recruiting but mostly sales. So this means you can run things like a PPGA, a traditional agency or an mlm business. The options is yours. And HBW isn't in the lead business. They talked about it before and realized if they were they couldn't maintain those contract levels, so they've opted to just focus on higher payouts to the agents and agencies and you're on your own for leads and prospecting.

 

[Guest]

Is HBW still tied to AIG? I looked on their website and their paperwork out of curiosity, and saw American General all over it. To me, AIG is toxic. I don't know too many agents or prospects who would want to be associated with them. Has HBW moved to another "preferred" carrier to associate itself with?

Al

 

[gzpxyj]

Is HBW still tied to AIG? I looked on their website and their paperwork out of curiosity, and saw American General all over it. To me, AIG is toxic. I don't know too many agents or prospects who would want to be associated with them. Has AIG moved to another "preferred" carrier to associate itself with?

Al

Al:
HBW still tied with AIG. But it now put bulk of business to ING since not many agents sell AIG anymore. The new prefered carrier is ING at this point. Jim
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You are correct that it is based on the agency development. However, you have the choice of hiring only experienced agents if you like or hiring non experienced or a combination of the two.

For example as an AVP it's 105%. So I can hire an agent at any of the following levels 60%, 65%. 75%. 85%, or 95% and they would be considered in my base shop. Or I can hire an agent on at the same level as me at 105% and still get paid a 7% override even though we're both at the same contract level.

As far as being unsustainable let's take a look at the math. First there are 2 levels above AVP 105% which is EVP 110% and NDA 115%. So to show HBWs max payout lets say you made it to the top as an NDA at 115% on personal production. Now let's say you have 2 other levels of NDAs under you just to max out HBWs payout. So you get paid 7% on the first level and 3% on the second level. That's a total of 10% max payout in overrides because they don't go any deeper than 2 levels. Now add your 115% to the 10% and you have a total max payout of 125% from HBW to their agents. I'm not sure what HBW is getting paid but I'd venture to guess 145% or so? Maybe more or less. I'm just guessing here. But that leaves them 20% on all that business. I certainly think it's sustainable.

I think that's the unique thing about HBW is you don't have to recruit. You get every level based on production alone. So for a high personal producer he can reach the same level as someone who's only a recruiter, or someone who does a little recruiting but mostly sales. So this means you can run things like a PPGA, a traditional agency or an mlm business. The options is yours. And HBW isn't in the lead business. They talked about it before and realized if they were they couldn't maintain those contract levels, so they've opted to just focus on higher payouts to the agents and agencies and you're on your own for leads and prospecting.

Just let you know in addition to my own MGA agency, I have been with HBW for a few years. I know the system. You just don't want to let agents to recruit multiple layers of 105% agents since each layer you have to pay the over-ride. An 105% agents should build all level of agents, not only 105% agents.

 

[360]

No it doesn't make me a National Director of Sales, it puts me at the Agency Vice President level. Yes, I started at the Agency Vice President AVP level with HBW. This may be my first post on here, "but this ain't my first rodeo pal".


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Oh, and just to set the record straight. I'm not currently with HBW, although I am considering going back with them. I was first licensed in 1986. I've been out of the country for a little over 2 years now and will be back the beginning of April. So I've been out of the insurance game for a couple of years, but looking to come back in. I've been offered to come back in with HBW at the AVP level. But I know things change over a 2 year period so I'm looking hard at everything out there. I don't want to be hopping around from one IMO to another and chasing this lead system and that lead system. I'm looking at contracts, marketing and leads. Trying to determine if it's better to purchase leads or self generate them. I'm leaning towards self generation. But what methods and what target markets? I'm also looking at agency building. Although I enjoy selling and dealing one on one with clients, I really want to grow an agency. Unlike some people I'm open to learning and don't think I know it all. That's why I'm here. I'm here to learn and exchange ideas. I never make assumptions that things are as they appear to be. Also please don't make the mistake of comparing the number of messages one posts on these boards as being more experienced than someone with less posts. It may mean one has too much time on their hands instead of being in the field.

Now that would have made a nice first post.

No mistakes on this one here. I saw a first time poster drag a fairly worthless post a few months old about an MLM insurance out from the dead and found it funny.

Enjoy the forum. There's tons of good stuff on here for you about getting back in the saddle.

 

[Cornelius]

Agents can pick and choose which carrier they wish to use. AIG, Banner, ING, West coast or whomever. Take a look at pipeline.
HBW - Business Pipeline most questions people have can be answered by going over the site. Another option is to just call the company.

 

[Third Joker]

HBW seems to have issues:

SoulCast - Still drinking the HBW Kool-Aid?

I have heard many stories out there that would give me pause.

 

[Cornelius]

Due diligence. No one thing is right for all people. One major point is the agents from day one own their book of business and can come and go as they so please. If any has any questions I encourage them to call the company. Go to the source.