How much can a client in Tennessee potentially sue for an agent fraudulently getting them approved to roll $500k

[DHK]

Just because a client signed does not mean they understood what they were signing.

 

[scagnt83]

Just because a client signed does not mean they understood what they were signing.

But it does make it much harder to say they did not know, or have a chance to know.

The lack of suitability has not even been proven in this situation.

Lots of advisors use the 10year income riders and plan free withdrawals prior to y10. We both know that sometimes that works out to a higher payout amount for life.

A signature does not mean understanding. But it does mean they had the chance to. And that makes it extremely difficult with regulators.

Sure these people can hire a lawyer and pay them 20% of the E&O payout .....

Which is probably more than double what the Surrender Charges are....

The only person that wins in that scenario is the lawyer, and the agent chasing a $500k annuity case... well, $400k after the lawyers cut.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

The actual owner of the IRAs was 61 at the time the initial annuities were issued-i definitely plan to investigate whether there’s anyway to still have this considered elder abuse as I believe it would have been if she was four or five months older.

Not much to add besides what's already has been said but how old do you think the average annuity buyer is?

This person is young for an annuity if anything.

 

[DHK]

This person is young for an annuity if anything.

61 is young for an annuity?? That's a good age to me, particularly if they're deferring income and there's a guaranteed income step-up over a period of say 10 years.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

61 is young for an annuity?? That's a good age to me, particularly if they're deferring income and there's a guaranteed income step-up over a period of say 10 years.

My point is that 61 is on the younger side. People in their 50s would be the youngest typically.

Certainly not elder abuse.

 

[rousemark]

Unless the agent signed the app for them, it is very unlikely they will get their money back.

Elder abuse? Unless they are mentally impaired, it is far from that.

They signed the app in at least 4 or 5 different places. Agreeing that they understand the terms that are clearly laid out in the app.

One of those signatures is on the Surrender Charge disclosure.

Another signature is on the Income Rider disclosure.

Very difficult for them to say they did not know.... or have a chance to know. Unless they are mentally impaired.

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Regarding the product.

It is highly unlikely that they are unable to start income payments until year 10. Perhaps not with the Income Rider (only a small handful would not allow it), but the 10% withdrawals would be more than enough.

Most products also allow annuitization prior to y10.


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Regarding the situation, you are Monday morning quarterbacking on this.

Yes, it seems shady based on the suitability questions and financial info.

However, what if the clients are the ones who gave those numbers?

You dont know what you dont know in this situation.

Im not saying that you are wrong. But you dont know the other side either.

AND you are basically chasing a $500k annuity case.... dont think for a second that will not be taken into account if you make a complaint on their behalf.

The old "my product is better, the other guy ripped them off"... is something regulators hear a lot.

Unless the client initiated this situation. You are in no position to move this forward with regulators.

When I first read the OP my thought was the posterb is upset somebody took his cheese. Clients had half a million dollars and another agent got it before he could get to it. .

 

[LostDollar]

61 is young for an annuity?? That's a good age to me, particularly if they're deferring income and there's a guaranteed income step-up over a period of say 10 years.

My point is that 61 is on the younger side. People in their 50s would be the youngest typically.

Certainly not elder abuse.

Caveat, not an agent.

(I am just coming into this in the middle, because of the two specific posts I cited. I have not read op's original post.)

I think there is a tension presented there between the time when people actually do something and the time when it might have been ideal for them to do something.

After the "attempts to understand and buy annuities" situations I have faced over the last 8 months, and am still facing, it is my personal, non-agent, non-financial professional opinion that.....

if one had $1/2M to $1M to put in annuities, they would be much, much better off doing that at age 60-65 than age 75-80.

One ages out. Ages out of access to A-A+ Best rated carriers. Ages out of access to some products, such as those with 10-15 year rollup periods. Ages out of some product features--such as doubled LPA's for health events--even when the base product can still be purchased.

Personally, I had neither the financial resources or the knowledge to consider annuities when I was in my 60's; however my later experiences and concerns squarely line up with @DHK 's comment.

 

[LostDollar]

You can be sued and held liable for failing to understand the common courtesy of paragrqphs.

I received a lot of "counsel" in that regard 6 years ago.

 

[walthamny]

You have a very weak case if your argument is suitability questions were answered differently on different dates on different annuity applications. Funds were coming from an IRA so many of the liquid asset test wont matter much. If an agent was committing fraud he would have copied the answers from one suitability application to another. Thats not the case here. Clients have been getting annuity statements I presume so your argument on the delivery receipt being forged after 2 years of issue does not sound reasonable. They knew their money was going into an annuity. DO you want to argue they invested 500k and never wondered how their money is doing or did not care about getting statements until they met you. Good luck.