I Got Pressed One'd Today!

[Norwayguy]

I like it.

Breaking the law.

Publicly stating breaking the law.

Good plan.

How much research have you done about who is getting cracked down on? With more and more attention being drawn to these, I wouldn't risk my future on it.

Josh a response like the one above is unlikely to start a thread war.....That's no way to catch up to Xrac....Heck we all where saying you needed a good press 1 thread.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I've set a decent amount of appointments this week via press 1 leads. If I'm gonna "break the law" guess I might as well make some money!

So you're saying that press 1 robocall leads are illegal?

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I'm not really convinced of how illegal they are.

"Even if a consumer does not have a phone number on the do-not-call list, robocalls are illegal. A 2009 rule specifically banned this type of phone sales pitch unless a consumer has given written permission to a company to call."

Read more: Complaints about telemarketer 'robocalls' up sharply | Fox News
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[moonlightandmargaritas]

Forward that on to the folks actually running press 1 lead campaigns.

I was responding to your "I'm not really convinced of how illegal they are" statement. You didn't say that?

 

[Cenla Agent]

Besides, let's be realistic here. *IF* they do ever crackdown on this it will simply result in the lead source no longer being available. I can link you to about a dozen sites selling these "illegal" leads. When they start disappearing I'll get the hint that the crackdown has begun and adjust accordingly.

Would it take a complete disappearance of child p0rn to convince you that a crackdown on it has commenced?

 

[Josh]

Technically I've only heard Josh state they are illegal and post a wiki link to verify that to be true.

As a rookie agent that sees press 1 leads for sale (some from very reputable IMO's many have vouched for here) I'm not really convinced of how illegal they are.

I'll as the rhetorical question, "name one?"

No reputable IMO should be suggesting or supporting folks break the law under the logic of "it's ok, we won't get caught".

If an IMO/FMO/GA is suggesting that you break the law as a way to make money, I don't think that upline has much credibility.


How much proof do you need to believe that it isn't true?

This specifically references regulations from the FTC site:

FTC Robo Call Ban | Auto Dialer Services

In the event some folks can't click on that and read the link, I'll resort to quoting myself again:

Some people think your activities are exempt from the FTC's jurisdiction. After taking the time to evaluate your claims at their face, there are a few flaws. Admittedly the language is confusing, but in reviewing the situation as a whole, it becomes clear what that exemption really applies to. Let's start with something basic:

The FTC has jurisdiction over the DNC registry and that law does prevent individuals from receiving telemarketing calls from insurance agents to sell insurance products. We already know that. The same legal theory you believe applies to the ban on the voice broadcasting would also be able to invalidate that, but it hasn't. That in and of itself should clear up the misunderstanding, but there is plenty more.

Let's evaluate the exemption for non-profits vs non-profits that hire other firms to do their marketing. Non-profits can do their own marketing and can actually have other companies do it as well, provided the other companies are doing it for free as well. If the telemarketer making calls on behalf of a non-profit receives compensation for making said calls then they are profiting from it and now it is a for-profit business to consumer call which is exactly what is expressly prohibited. That is the reason why it can't get contracted out. Seems like a small thing, but that's where the line is. If I have a non-profit and hire a telemarketer to come work for me I can pay them as an employee, I just can't pay them as a business if I want to call on numbers listed in the DNC.

Let's also go back to the portion of the law that specifically states that insurance companies are exempt. If we were talking about an agency situation where the agent was captive to a specific carrier it would be worth spending some time getting into the details of that, but the reality is we're for the purposes of this thread now talking about independent agents. Independent agents are 1099, non-employee contractors. They by definition are not employees of the company and are not part of the insurance company. Again, if we were talking about a w2 organization then that may be a different story, but a w2 agent would have their companies compliance agent/attorney able to guide them with the companies position on this.

Now let's talking about the HIPAA exemption. If you read through the law, it doesn't give carte blanche approval for all "HIPAA related calls".
Healthcare Message Exemption
This exemption is limited to calls permitted under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 ("HIPAA"), pursuant to regulations issued by the Department of Health and Human Services. The only healthcare calls that are exempt are those "made by, or on behalf of, a covered entity or its business associate, as those terms are defined in the HIPAA Privacy Rule, 45 CFR 160.103."

The HIPAA Privacy Rule permits only three types of calls, whether "live" or prerecorded, by a healthcare provider or its business associates without a patient's prior authorization – namely: (1) calls to describe a health-related product or service that is provided by, or included in a plan of benefits of, the covered entity making the communication; (2) calls for treatment of the individual; and (3) calls for case management or care coordination for the individual, or to direct or recommend alternative treatments, therapies, health care providers, or settings of care to the individual. Only these three categories of prerecorded healthcare message calls are exempt from the 2008 TSR amendments prohibiting telemarketing calls that deliver a prerecorded message. Some examples of exempt healthcare-related HIPAA calls are:

Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a pharmacy to provide prescription refill reminders;
Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a medical provider to provide medical appointment or other reminders (e.g., availability of flu shots or mammograms);
Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a durable medical equipment supplier to document that a patient has used his or her current supply (e.g., of insulin needles or respiratory supplies) before sending additional supplies; and
Prerecorded message calls by or on behalf of a case manager to check on a patient's condition.
Prerecorded messages involving products or services not prescribed by a doctor or other healthcare provider as part of a plan of treatment, and therefore not within the healthcare exemption would include, for example:

Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a provider of vitamins, minerals, or alternative medical therapies;
Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a provider of gym or health club memberships; or
Prerecorded message calls made by or on behalf of a provider of weight loss products or programs.
In one sentence it makes it perfectly clear: "Prerecorded messages involving products or services not prescribed by a doctor or other healthcare provider as part of a plan of treatment, and therefore not within the healthcare exemption "

To circle back to a point above, the TSR isn't just a ban on voice broadcasting, it's the totality of the laws the FTC has referred to as the "Telemarketing Sales Rule". This is most notably in reference to the DNC registry and restrictions on when folks can and cannot be telemarketed, but the most recent ban on voice broadcasting is simply an addition to the existing rule or set of rules.

Unfortunately it's perfectly clear that the exemptions noted in the law specifically apply to business, companies, and providers using voice broadcasting tools to more or less conduct business with existing clients and/or individuals they have an existing relationship with. It is remarkably clear that even within the exemptions, as soon as a company crosses from providing their service to trying to sell something (a doctor calling to remind a patient about an appointment vs trying to sell them vitamins), it crosses the line and becomes a sales call that is regulated by the FTC, regardless of the industry.

Other interesting reading:

New Rule Prohibiting Unwanted "Robocalls" to Take Effect on September 1
FTC Takes Action to Stop Massive Robocalling Operations

Let's also not ignore that they are realizing that marketers are flat out ignoring the law and are reacting to it.
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Ah yes, I was thinking more along the lines of is it illegal for an agent or salesmen in any field to actually use a lead that was generated in such a way. As a 3rd party I'm thinking you have no liability.

"Your honor, I knew they were generating these leads illegally, but my recruiter said it was OK. I also wasn't technically the one doing it, I was just paying for them to do it."

If you're really going to play with fire like this, you should probably engage the services of a competent attorney.

 

[coloradoseniormarket]

This boils down to simple economics, companies remain in business because there is a market for their product. Companies that generate these leads are difficult to track down and start up costs are fairly low and the profits generated are greater than the penalty they will likely pay. Robocalls are illegal and even the salesman is not making the calls they are purchasing a product that is generated illegally.

Lets go a step further, health agents have taken a big hit in commissions because of the "excess profits" made by health insurance companies. It is too simplistic to believe that health insurance companies are driving up the cost of health care. To contain health costs and the administration of the plans withing their cap, commissions were cut and the good service and field work of these agents were grossly devalued.

Isn't it possible that insurance agents using this type of lead gives a predatory taint to the very nature of our business. Big brother may decide that insurance agents are predatory, irrelevant and to protect the public interest no longer needed.

 

[Josh]

This boils down to simple economics, companies remain in business because there is a market for their product. Companies that generate these leads are difficult to track down and start up costs are fairly low and the profits generated are greater than the penalty they will likely pay. Robocalls are illegal and even the salesman is not making the calls they are purchasing a product that is generated illegally.

Lets go a step further, health agents have taken a big hit in commissions because of the "excess profits" made by health insurance companies. It is too simplistic to believe that health insurance companies are driving up the cost of health care. To contain health costs and the administration of the plans withing their cap, commissions were cut and the good service and field work of these agents were grossly devalued.

Isn't it possible that insurance agents using this type of lead gives a predatory taint to the very nature of our business. Big brother may decide that insurance agents are predatory, irrelevant and to protect the public interest no longer needed.

Well said.

.

 

[coloradoseniormarket]

I really don't want to call out an IMO for selling press 1 leads. If you take that as a cop out than that is your prerogative but I assure you press 1 lead orders are filled every week by an IMO that I think even you Josh have specifically said was a good one.

Don't forget I'm a rookie that has spent months scouring this forum for lead sources and then to cross reference those that got thumbs up from some of the senior posters here. Out of respect I don't use names but I assure you I'm not just making it up either.

I'm sure there are a few here that aren't as "shy" as me. They can chime in and openly tell you whom they order press 1 leads from every week.

PHR phone leads but they say theirs are legal.

 

[Josh]

I really don't want to call out an IMO for selling press 1 leads. If you take that as a cop out than that is your prerogative but I assure you press 1 lead orders are filled every week by an IMO that I think even you Josh have specifically said was a good one.

Don't forget I'm a rookie that has spent months scouring this forum for lead sources and then to cross reference those that got thumbs up from some of the senior posters here. Out of respect I don't use names but I assure you I'm not just making it up either.

I'm sure there are a few here that aren't as "shy" as me. They can chime in and openly tell you whom they order press 1 leads from every week.

I don't know what you mean by "senior" poster. There are two folks I know on here that do Press 1s or anything close to them. One is PHR which appear to be doing everything above board and I'll avoid mentioning the name of the other one because he tends to get a little too "affectionate" with me from time to time so we'll just let that ride.

You've been more than clearly informed about what is and is not legal and you're intelligent enough to know the difference. Your decision to engage in an illegal marketing activity is your decision to make.

The real goofy thing about the entire thing is that the same guy that is promoting his voice broadcasted lead program is the *EXACT* same guy that had some telemarketers that were doing it the right way and he said it was going well. If the guy was smart enough to make money doing it the right way I don't know why he'd fool around with something this dirty.
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PHR phone leads but they say theirs are legal.

They get permission. Huge difference.