Is a CPCU Good for Practical Knowledge in Commercial Ins?

[NCAgent]

Hey guys,

It's been a while since we talked about designations so I figured I'd bring this up again, but asking about the importance of the designation for someone getting into a field rather than having the letters after working in the field for a few years.

So an opportunity came up to me to go work on getting some commercial accounts and do PL on the side for company employees. It seems very lucrative and I'm very interested in it. These would range from the mom n' pop butcher shops to 200-1000 employee businesses. The logistics aren't important here but I've thought about it enough to think it would be a good move to make.

Here is the catch: I don't know much about commercial P&C insurance, AT ALL. I've established how I might know more than a L&H agent ad maybe a little more than a personal lines P&C agent, but that is it. I don't know enough to go out there and quote, talk the talk, submit apps to underwriting with supporting documentation, or anything. In this new opportunity I would be getting trained as part of the process, which I know can take a while. I just know enough to recognize that this **** can be very complicated and get someone to help me during any commercial quote.

My question is this: Will getting a CPCU impart practical knowledge or anything that will help make commercial P&C easier to understand or get a footing on some of the foundations? That might sound like a big "duh!" but I mean setting a foundation for commercial rather than provide supplementary knowledge to someone who already knows this area. I assume it isn't as vanilla as the P&C license but would I be better spending the time elsewhere, like a CIC or just doing some CEs?

I need to get CEs for my licenses anyway, so it seems like a good time to start taking some of the courses in the CPCU like CPCU 530 (business law for insurance professionals) CPCU 551 (commercial casualty insurance) and CPCU 552 (commercial property insurance.)

The mentor is great- I trust that I'll learn everything correctly. I'm just wanting to speed up the learning curve a bit and get a good foundation for this before I start going after some of the larger accounts. I also don't want a huge downtime because of trying to learn how coverages and everything work.

Any thoughts? Does now seem like the best time to start the CPCU, or would I get a lot more relevance and more fulfillment from these courses after learning a bit of commercial P&C first?

 

[Air Jer]

The CPCU is difficult and time consuming to do. I know. It covers a lot of things that we insurance agents really don't need to do our jobs like insurance company accounting and economics to name but two. Think college level courses. Am I glad I did it? Yes.

However, if someone is starting new to the agency side and they are certain they will never work for an insurance company but stay on the agency side, the CIC is of more benefit, in my opinion. It is coverage oriented and not in a theoretical way but in a take it to the streets kind of way.

Another option is the CLCS that National Underwriter offers. It can be done from the comfort of your home as well as at the office as long as you have access to the internet. I've not done this but from what I have heard about it from those who have done it I would recommend taking a look at it.

Good luck!

 

[NCAgent]

The CPCU is difficult and time consuming to do. I know. It covers a lot of things that we insurance agents really don't need to do our jobs like insurance company accounting and economics to name but two. Think college level courses. Am I glad I did it? Yes.

However, if someone is starting new to the agency side and they are certain they will never work for an insurance company but stay on the agency side, the CIC is of more benefit, in my opinion. It is coverage oriented and not in a theoretical way but in a take it to the streets kind of way.

Another option is the CLCS that National Underwriter offers. It can be done from the comfort of your home as well as at the office as long as you have access to the internet. I've not done this but from what I have heard about it from those who have done it I would recommend taking a look at it.

Good luck!

Thank you sir!

Do you feel that starting in commercial, it would benefit me to get the CIC NOW or to wait until I learn a few more things?

I like formal training on things like coverages, exclusions, and things like that. I like being able to look things up as necessary until they become more intuitive. Do you feel that the CIC will prepare me as much as the CPCU for the *normal* things that we see?

What exactly is the difference in things learned in the CPCU vs the CIC? I see some things like accounting and agency management, some things on insurance business law, and then coverages for commercial and personal P&C. Shouldn't we know most of those things for the agency owner, or do these things go WAY more in depth than what it sounds like up front?

I don't want it to sound like my mind is made up on the CPCU, I'll do the CIC if that is better. I'm just curious as to what you mean about how there are things on there we don't need as agency owners. When you say insurance accounting, do you mean like large scale accounting for the insurance company itself?

I come from a biology and chemistry background. Would the CPCU be something I can self-study, or do I *need* a class room? That will make a large difference to me, too. I know the CIC is something you go to for a day or two to complete in a classroom.

I care more for relevancy than difficulty, but I like learning. I'd be just as fine as doing a CIC and CLU than a CPCU and CLU, for example. I'm still going to be learning things because I like to learn. The alphabet soup is for me and most people won't see it unless they ask for my credentials.

 

[Air Jer]

Give the CLCS a look before making a decision. CPCU takes some time to do. CIC imparts street level knowledge but it is done over a few days as you mention then you have the added pressure of having to pass a test on a lot of material covered in a short period of time. Also, CIC covers some areas that may or may not be beneficial to your situation such as life insurance or personal lines.

The CLCS focuses exclusively on commercial lines coverage and you take it at your leisure. The knowledge requirements to pass the test are stiff but you don't have to do it at the end of 2.5 days of cramming. A little less pressure. The CLCS costs about $510 as I recall and CIC sessions are $400 a piece not counting travel expense, lodging and meals.

By stating the above paragraph, I am not saying CIC isn't worth it as it is. The real decision on your part, at least in my mind, is do you want a broad general knowledge then CIC is the deal. Do you want knowledge extremely focused on commercial lines that gets you up and running quicker then CLCS might just be the answer. Who knows, maybe you will want to do both.

As for the CPCU, with your academic background, you can self study and do well. I self studied all of the parts myself and passed the exams and I'm not that smart.

Again, good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[iiinycboi]

HEY NCPCLHNOOB,

I am trying to pursue my CIC and CPCU as well. From my understanding CIC is agency oriented and CPCU is underwriting rating company side. I will still purse both though to expand my knowledge. Bertionlini recommended i take CIC first since it will help my agency greatly.

Also there is a sponsorship for first course for CIC if you never taken it. I think its done through PIA. I've nominated myself(i'm not sure it works lol) But give it a try.

This is small guide to CIC and breakdown of what is taught.

https://www.scic.com/files/preparingforcic.pdf

 

[Guest]

I personaly think you need to KNOW Personal Lines up and down before you really start to get into commercial lines...
Some GOOD business owners, KNOW their insurance needs and know the terminology and words, and if they know it and you don't, you just shot yourself in the foot....

Letters after your name, CAN impress a client, if they know anything about that, but I think alot of letters after your name is to impress other agents.
I "think" getting some of those letters is pretty time consuming and expensive, so just be prepared for that time and expense.

If you do decide to get some letters, make sure you use it to your advantage, meaning, dont just put them on your card, but tell people you speak too, I have this and this training, this seperates me from some of the other people...

I personally think you should learn the basics before you start the advance training stuff. But then again, if you want to become more of a commerical agent and not a personal lines agent, then by all means, you will need some letters..........

I tend to see people start in PL, add some producers to do all the PL, then the owner shifts to Commerical lines, remember, you probally have some requirements to the carriers on PL to maintain your codes with them. I see ALOT/most CL codes require a yearly minimum requirement to maintain your contract, I usually see $50,000 in new business, that can be tough sometimes, add in 2, 3 4 carriers and you suddenly have a HUGE stressor hanging over your head....

As always......I COULD be wrong...

 

[iiinycboi]

like ncpclanoob, i wont be promoting the letters on my card but i will tell them if they ask for credentials. I am using these classes as a classroom learning tool to learn the ins and outs of insurance more.

i'm a self study, researching, classroom learning type of guy. so this will help me with the experience/learning curve.

 

[NCAgent]

I personaly think you need to KNOW Personal Lines up and down before you really start to get into commercial lines...
Some GOOD business owners, KNOW their insurance needs and know the terminology and words, and if they know it and you don't, you just shot yourself in the foot....

Letters after your name, CAN impress a client, if they know anything about that, but I think alot of letters after your name is to impress other agents.
I "think" getting some of those letters is pretty time consuming and expensive, so just be prepared for that time and expense.

If you do decide to get some letters, make sure you use it to your advantage, meaning, dont just put them on your card, but tell people you speak too, I have this and this training, this seperates me from some of the other people...

I personally think you should learn the basics before you start the advance training stuff. But then again, if you want to become more of a commerical agent and not a personal lines agent, then by all means, you will need some letters..........

I tend to see people start in PL, add some producers to do all the PL, then the owner shifts to Commerical lines, remember, you probally have some requirements to the carriers on PL to maintain your codes with them. I see ALOT/most CL codes require a yearly minimum requirement to maintain your contract, I usually see $50,000 in new business, that can be tough sometimes, add in 2, 3 4 carriers and you suddenly have a HUGE stressor hanging over your head....

As always......I COULD be wrong...

Thanks RBA.

The PL would still be maintained- I'm actually adding some more producing agents for this and we work in house with a few companies that give us the PL leads. I know I can't do it in real life, and it is something I will have to be diligent with, but let's cut that out of the equation.

The new position is to work 95.62% of the time in commercial, and then do PL for the employees. I'm cool with that. The alphabet soup would be good for the business owners, but honestly I'm more concerned about the learning curve. Like we talked about with AverageJoe, for example, it is A LOT. I respect that and have a healthy fear of it, too. I'm going to make a lot of mistakes, but I'll have a mentor/partner working with me who has done this for 30 years or so. However, I want to get a jumpstart on the CL side. I'm by no means an expert on PL, but I'm at the point where I'm hitting large diminishing returns on PL training, if that makes sense. I'd like to learn CL and take this job because it looks very interesting and intriguing, but there is a STEEP, RIDONKULAS learning curve to it.

Hence asking about the CPCU, and hearing about the CIC and CLCS. I could have 9 designations but I won't advertise them unless someone legitimately asks or I think it will make a difference. But the knowledge gained could probably offset some of the time it would take learning-by-doing with some of these things.

Some of the stuff I won't learn in the classroom. Hook coverage, key man insurance (a vague term depending on the owners), etc. but I will have someone going with me on appointments in the beginning while I learn this. I'll do all the proper precautions like learning 2-5 SICs at a time until I feel capable, then doing it again later.

PL is something that I like, but commercial looks a lot more interesting from the outside. At the very worst, I go back to PL and know how to write some of my client's small businesses as well

 

[Guest]

Do you have the markets for CL?

 

[NCAgent]

Do you have the markets for CL?

Yes, we will have access to most of the markets in the area. It won't be a baby start-up we're walking into.

Travelers, Safeco, Montgomery, Hartford, Philidelphia, and etc. as part of a cluster. Look up Keystone Group to get a idea, this is something similar.