Justifying a Whole Life Policy

[rousemark]

A. I never said I wouldnt sell it to him!

B. I know my products I have read those books

C. There is no way I can justify it because he wont get the return on his money

D. And ya I am not a sly salesman Im out to protect my client not to sell him something that he does not need.

Let me guess. You rep Primerica..

 

[Jerard]

Big difference between posting a utube or gif and completely going off about a different product.

So posting a dancing bear on a thread about WL is different than posting about UL's on a WL thread?

Why don't you just start a post on why you don't like ULs? Why must you do this rant about ULs on a WL post? You do understand WL and UL are two different products and every time you go off tangent it takes away from the subject. I mean for crying out loud, just make a UL topic and have at it.

Not a bad idea. But if I did I'd have to read your same comments a third and fourth time.

...this is a whole life post, not a UL post and it makes no sense or provides no help to try and turn it into a UL post.

Already addressed. Scroll up.

"Are you saying that agents should not have morals"

If you have to tell me you have "morals", do you really?

"I have never said that *I* have morals"

Let me see if this helps you understand.

"If you have to tell me you have "morals", do you really?"

If an agent, not you of course, has to tell me that they have "morals", does that agent, not you of course, really have them?

Does that work better for you?

I could if I could make sense of this part.

 

[DHK]

Can anybody tell me on what day did the industry memo go out that said being uninformed about how products work somehow places one on a moral pedestal?

Seriously, if you want to take the moral high ground, learn the products and the situations they fit for and quit using "morals" as an excuse for your ignorance.

And while you're at it, read Covey's 7 Habits. One of the habits he discusses is "Think Win-Win". If you truly live by the philosophy of "win-win or no deal" (meaning you don't win at your client's expense but rather you both win - or walk away), you won't need to apologize for making a living by helping clients advance financially.

Well, there are a few career agencies that promote their products as "always" best for the consumer, and anyone saying differently is just trying to "use and abuse the customer for their own gain".


That's part of the kool aid out there.


MassMutual (and other par whole life companies) will tell you that anyone selling IUL doesn't understand WL.


Primerica believes that anyone selling anything other than term... is of the devil.


IUL carriers (not too many career agencies here) may tell you that WL doesn't grow as much as the potential that an IUL policy offers. Plus "WL isn't flexible".


There's always a fit for any product. Just know about them and offer the best fit for the situation.

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BTW, it's quite annoying when the OP edits their post so we can't go back to the original question posed.

 

[Jerard]

I genuinely meant that there is a disconnect in your level of knowledge on this product. You are not fully informed of all of the facts.

I keep hearing that the reason I don't like UL's is because I'm "not informed of the facts". Here's your chance. Tell me what facts I am missing that will prove to me UL's are guaranteed to be in benefit when the insured dies?

In the previous thread you mention, I presented facts. But you refused to acknowledge or comment on any of them.

What I have said, and this is all I have said, is that UL's CONSIST of ART and a cash fund which the amount is dependent on the current interest rate. And because ALL UL's are created with these two elements, none are, or can be, guaranteed for the entire life on the insured. Regardless of how long he lives.

From your comments on the previous thread, it is very clear to those of us looking at this from an outside perspective, that you are blinded somewhat by a personal bias that was formed out of being burnt by the product early in your career. Which is very understandable.

Correct. I was the agent when me and a sales manager had to tell an 78 year old women her UL would be ending unless she paid an extra 200 per month. She didn't have the money and was too proud to ask family for it. She committed suicide so that it would pay off before then so her family would have the money. I wasn't the one that was "burnt" by this, but it showed me that these products are not guaranteed and that most people that have them think that they are.

But the root of the reason you were burnt was a lack of education on how the product works.

Not correct. But if you know of any UL that does not consists of two parts. One being one year term and the other being interest dependent cash value, then I'd like to see it.

But it can be factually proven if you bother to set aside your bias and consider the facts.I am not trying to argue. But it is very clear to anyone who is fully versed in UL that there is a gap in your knowledge base.

Again, show me your facts. If I missed it the first time it was not intentional.

You cite wikipedia as a source on a professional forum???.... but you totally disregarded the stats I gave from LIMRA (the largest and most respected independent industry research firm).

Were these your facts? The lapse rate of two different types of policies has little to do (perhaps nothing) with how each of these products are created. WL is exactly calculated to guarantee a DB for the entire life of the insured. UL's are dependent on interest rates for the CV and therefore cannot ever be 100% guaranteed OR ever be "paid up". Yes, I understand that they can have enough CV to carry the plan for the life of the client, but this is not as common as we all would wish.

The proper way to sell GUL is like a permanent Term product.
The agent should never mention loans and never mention skipping payments.
A loan should basically never be taken on a GUL and should not be presented as a viable option.

If a GUL is sold exactly the way you state here then, yes, it could be safe for the lifetime of the insured. But how many agents really say these things? I stated last week that I don't include long term career agents as being the broken link in the process. With an over 90% fail rate on new agents that are selling UL's there are alot of them being sold the wrong way. That leaves alot of people that will be suffering 20 to 30 years from now because they were told they could "skip payments" if they need to.

I have ULs on the books. Not GULs but ULs, that are guaranteed to age 95+. Not because of a Rider or because of a secondary guarantee.

But a UL with the Guaranteed Column extending to age 95-100 because of the premium funding level. A totally contractually guaranteed UL.

And if the person lives longer? What then?

If ULs are so dangerous or bad, why do they have only a slightly higher lapse rate (1.4%) than WL does?

These are lapse rates according to LIMRA I have attached the report:
WL: 3.9%
UL: 5.3%
That is only a 1.4% difference.
(by the way Term was 10.2%)


So the hard facts say that UL is only 1.4% more dangerous to the client.

Again, lapse rates have nothing to do with the internal construction of a policy. It's like saying that because women live longer then men it's because they are smarter. And we all know that's not true.

You seem to box everyone into the same box as only having a Life Insurance need of FE near the end of their life. This just is not factually true.

Do you know someone that will never die and not ever need pay for their own funeral? Part of my opinion is why not pay it off early soas not to have to be paying out the arse for it when they retire.

I agree that the industry had a problem with ULs, and it still persists somewhat.
But the problem has more to do with education than it does with the products that are available.

There are some ways (that I see) to fix the problem. One would be to teach agents the way to sell it. I think we can agree that this will never happen. Another way would be for companies to change their presentation software to show a longer sustained DB at the guaranteed interest rate AND for the companies to make sure this is enforced. Another idea would be for each company that sells UL's create a department that would call the client and make sure they understand the way they work along with the potential downfalls...with a follow up letter in clearly understandable language. I'm kind of iffy on how well this would work, but it could be worth a try.

There are good quality UL products available to sell. If an agent is educated on the subject they would not sell a poor quality or underfunded UL. Those that do are either uneducated or unethical. What other reason would there be for either of those scenarios?

Addressed above.

ULs are not a simple product. As stated before, if you dont fully understand it you shouldnt sell it.

But unfortunately being misinformed about something can give you the illusion of being fully informed.

Take a chance that you might not know everything that you think you know and objectively consider facts in a professional and logical manner. You will expand your Life Insurance knowledge if you do.

Also, I sell very little traditional UL these days. Actually, hardly any. Mainly due to interest rates. WL is just more attractive in the current economic environment. But your comments about UL are misinformed, misleading, and wrong.

If you can prove that anything I have stated is factually wrong then I challenge you to provide facts to the contrary. I don't include irrelevant statistics such as lapse rates as relevant facts. You cannot show me that any UL is constructed any different than what I have stated (meaning other than one part term and one part interest dependent CV).

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My fingers are tired....need to go soak them.

 

[Cornelius]

Edit=CYA... many people read this board. Oh yea let me say I do learn things during many of these fights or at the least research comments. Thanks folks. Now ding,ding. Get it on.

 

[Jerard]

Edit=CYA... many people read this board. Oh yea let me say I do learn things during many of these fights or at the least research comments. Thanks folks. Now ding,ding. Get it on.

Ohhhhh....so now you're calling me a dingaling?

 

[Larry Tew]

Jerard, if you understood the products, you would realize they ALL can break if not used properly. I and others have posted enough educational material over time that all one has to do to gain a more complete understanding is to simply READ the material. but you would rather stick your fingers in your ear singing "LaLaLa" to drown out the information.

If this sounds harsh it's because I meant it to. I wouldn't have commented on your posts in this or the other thread until you played the "morals" card. You as much as said anyone who sold a UL lacked morals and cared only about the commission even if it hurt the client.

Here's why I use UL when it fits. Last month I had a 70-year old who had to convert his 10-yr term. I showed him a couple of WL plans with monthly premiums of $380, $460, and $660. Each had its own set of benefits.

He needed the premium to be around $275. I showed him UL at $260. He understood it may not last forever and that it never paid up - reduced or otherwise. But being FULLY INFORMED, he chose the UL.

If I had a crystal ball and knew when he was going to die, I might could have made a better recommendation, but that's not how it works.

 

[Jerard]

Jerard, if you understood the products, you would realize they ALL can break if not used properly. I and others have posted enough educational material over time that all one has to do to gain a more complete understanding is to simply READ the material. but you would rather stick your fingers in your ear singing "LaLaLa" to drown out the information.

If this sounds harsh it's because I meant it to. I wouldn't have commented on your posts in this or the other thread until you played the "morals" card. You as much as said anyone who sold a UL lacked morals and cared only about the commission even if it hurt the client.

Here's why I use UL when it fits. Last month I had a 70-year old who had to convert his 10-yr term. I showed him a couple of WL plans with monthly premiums of $380, $460, and $660. Each had its own set of benefits.

He needed the premium to be around $275. I showed him UL at $260. He understood it may not last forever and that it never paid up - reduced or otherwise. But being FULLY INFORMED, he chose the UL.

If I had a crystal ball and knew when he was going to die, I might could have made a better recommendation, but that's not how it works.

Everything that I could comment on this has already been done so by me more than once. I'm not going to keep typing the same thing over and over when all you have to do is comprehend better.

 

[LGilmore]

"So posting a dancing bear on a thread about WL is different than posting about UL's on a WL thread"

Yes, it is. A dancing bear is a poor form of life insurance and is rarely taken seriously as a comparable form of life insurance. UL is another form of life insurance and what you do when you tangent like that is cloud the issue being discussed. A dancing bear is just a break, and with most people wouldn't be a sign of another life plan.

"Not a bad idea. But if I did I'd have to read your same comments a third and fourth time"

Doubtful as I wouldn't take a UL post as an opportunity to rant against WL.

And Jerry? That entire other post where you are quoting me? You realize that you aren't actually quoting me as those aren't my words, they're somebody else's words...

I count 12 quotes referenced to me that I didn't make. Want to fix that? thanks.

 

[Jerard]

"So posting a dancing bear on a thread about WL is different than posting about UL's on a WL thread"

Yes, it is. A dancing bear is a poor form of life insurance and is rarely taken seriously as a comparable form of life insurance. UL is another form of life insurance and what you do when you tangent like that is cloud the issue being discussed. A dancing bear is just a break, and with most people wouldn't be a sign of another life plan.

"Not a bad idea. But if I did I'd have to read your same comments a third and fourth time"

Doubtful as I wouldn't take a UL post as an opportunity to rant against WL.

And Jerry? That entire other post where you are quoting me? You realize that you aren't actually quoting me as those aren't my words, they're somebody else's words...

I count 12 quotes referenced to me that I didn't make. Want to fix that? thanks.

Oh yea....opps. Will do.