Lowest Whole Premium

[Allen Trent]

Let's throw a little more sizzle on this thread.

Lowest premium in year one or say year 5 or 10? See - Div opt = reduce premium.
Lowest premium per thousand DB? See Div opt = PUA
Inherent benefits like ABR? Living benefits?

Single Premium would be the lowest premium outlay if they live long time. monthly pay would be the lowest premium if they die in month 2

just kidding, too many variables that make this superfluous that sesquipedalians might inject during a circumlocution while gasconading

 

[PrivClientSG]

Exactly. The one I mentioned at $124 is considered participating, but it has almost no planned dividends on the base product design & likely will only be $105k-110k in 30 years unless PUAR used to overfund where the product design is built to look good with PUAR dividend scale & low load cost, etc

Same with Ameritas, they do pay a small dividend on that policy, but its a tiny DB increase. Maybe $115k or $120k after 30 years.

For the small price difference, its a major consideration imo.

$20 more per month for 50% more DB in 30 or 40 years.

Plus partial ROP via CV.

Yeah but, Dividends are not guaranteed!

OK, let's look at the Guaranteed CV and Reduced Paid up at her retirement, 65 and 70.

Value v Price

Why not de-couple the illustrations -- and take out the dividend on all of them? The dividend is NOT guaranteed, so to include it automatically throws in a variable and one that is not guaranteed.

Aside from that the illustrations are meaningless -- other than the guarantee(s).

None of this is the proper way to make a comparison, especially based upon the question being misguided at best. I think some people here see that. Thanks.

 

[WinoBlues]

The dividend is NOT guaranteed, so to include it automatically throws in a variable and one that is not guaranteed.

Aside from that the illustrations are meaningless -- other than the guarantee(s).

It would be interesting to see the guarantees side by side. Also the Non-Forfitures in years 20, 25, and 30.

I noticed that a couple of people added Preferred rates as well. That brings up the differences in underwriting also. One company's Std may be another's Prd of course.
We can weed wack this all day

@shooter, are our answers clear as mud?

 

[PrivClientSG]

It would be interesting to see the guarantees side by side. Also the Non-Forfitures in years 20, 25, and 30.

I noticed that a couple of people added Preferred rates as well. That brings up the differences in underwriting also. One company's Std may be another's Prd of course.
We can weed wack this all day

@shooter, are our answers clear as mud?

Interesting? From my perspective -- how can you NOT look at the guarantee(s)? Even if you look at them, what happens when everyone starts looking at the remainder of the illustration? Current? Mid-point? To what end? I de-couple every illustration I run. I do NOT do it for the client. I do it for ME!

As far as the rating class -- unless you have underwriting completed and offers -- then you MUST start off looking at the worst "standard" rating class. The class right above rated. Then you can look at the "best" rating class. How can you just arbitrarily pick "preferred" for example? You can't. How many more classes are there to the best rating class, and how many are there to the worst? Like you said, one company's standard might be another company's __________ (fill in the blank)! How many classes from the top and bottom are you? The terminology of "standard and preferred is BS. Companies label rating classes anything they want. It's BS.

If your due diligence is not completely objective and unbiased, then what's the point? Thanks.

 

[Allen Trent]

How many classes from the top and bottom are you?

You know a post has devolved in this forum when members are asking other members if they are top or bottom?

 

[shooter]

Thanks for the thoughts, and opinions.
I made an error by not listing male in the intimal thread.

Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Are client, (joke).

I was searching for the lowest premium outlay monthly.
Void of dividends, not comparing cash value, etc.

I don't have access to any mutual companies' software. to
play with.
I had thought some of more knowledge among us would have access
to some, possible even more than one company.

What about Mutual Trust, or Illinois Mutual, Assurity,
some of the smaller Mutuals.

Another thought I have after running a ROP at 200,000 face for 30 years.
The client could take the cash value purchase a paid-up policy of
100,000 as one of the options with Illinois Mutual.
Premium- $140 per month.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Shooter

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Thanks for the thoughts, and opinions.
I made an error by not listing male in the intimal thread.

Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Are client, (joke).

I was searching for the lowest premium outlay monthly.
Void of dividends, not comparing cash value, etc.

I don't have access to any mutual companies' software. to
play with.
I had thought some of more knowledge among us would have access
to some, possible even more than one company.

What about Mutual Trust, or Illinois Mutual, Assurity,
some of the smaller Mutuals.

Another thought I have after running a ROP at 200,000 face for 30 years.
The client could take the cash value purchase a paid-up policy of
100,000 as one of the options with Illinois Mutual.
Premium- $140 per month.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Shooter

@WinoBlues does cases like that all the time.

Client needs more DB initially, wants some permanent DB on the backend.

It's a common solution but needs to fit the situation.

 

[WinoBlues]

Interesting? From my perspective -- how can you NOT look at the guarantee(s)? Even if you look at them, what happens when everyone starts looking at the remainder of the illustration? Current? Mid-point? To what end? I de-couple every illustration I run. I do NOT do it for the client. I do it for ME!

As far as the rating class -- unless you have underwriting completed and offers -- then you MUST start off looking at the worst "standard" rating class. The class right above rated. Then you can look at the "best" rating class. How can you just arbitrarily pick "preferred" for example? You can't. How many more classes are there to the best rating class, and how many are there to the worst? Like you said, one company's standard might be another company's __________ (fill in the blank)! How many classes from the top and bottom are you? The terminology of "standard and preferred is BS. Companies label rating classes anything they want. It's BS.

If your due diligence is not completely objective and unbiased, then what's the point? Thanks.

I need to reread my post. I didn't even know I said all of that. Dang, I do run on. All of that when I just thought it would be interesting to see the guarantees side by side. I really need to be less to be more.

 

[PrivClientSG]

Thanks for the thoughts, and opinions.
I made an error by not listing male in the intimal thread.

Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Are client, (joke).

I was searching for the lowest premium outlay monthly.
Void of dividends, not comparing cash value, etc.

I don't have access to any mutual companies' software. to
play with.
I had thought some of more knowledge among us would have access
to some, possible even more than one company.

What about Mutual Trust, or Illinois Mutual, Assurity,
some of the smaller Mutuals.

Another thought I have after running a ROP at 200,000 face for 30 years.
The client could take the cash value purchase a paid-up policy of
100,000 as one of the options with Illinois Mutual.
Premium- $140 per month.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Shooter

Got it. Everyone handles their cases differently. For me, the "lowest" premium is just getting backed into a corner. I show the right product, not the lowest, but I get that sometimes you just get handcuffed. It makes it harder when you have to keep going back to a source for illustrations, information, etc.

Mutual Trust (Pan-American Life Insurance Group Stock Company) is a mutual holding company. Back in 2015 they became part of PALIG). Illinois Mutual is a straight mutual, and has been "family" led and operated (by the McCord family) for over 100 years, which is a bit rare in today's day and age of mutuals. There's nothing wrong with looking at other mutual companies, and I do so regularly. I have some regular few I throw in, and depending on the product, need, case specifics, I choose others. Good luck!

 

[PrivClientSG]

Yes, less can be more. In a case like this, don't go overboard/overkill. Keep it simple.