MA Plans should pay commission like Med Supps

[GreenSky]

I've been thinking out what CMS is trying to do and I have finally come to the conclusion that they are correct. We should be paid just like we're paid on Med Supps. That is, we should receive commission as a percentage of the premium.

Since CMS pays the premium to the insurance company, we must use this amount upon which to base our commission.

The average premium paid for an MA plan is something in excess of $800 per month. This is $9,600 per year. If we are paid only 17% commisison, we should receive a check for $1,632 per year, or $136 per month. Since most carriers will pay us for at least 6 years, I suggest MA plans do this as well.

CMS is correct. Agents are not being paid properly for this type of policy.

Problem solved. Let's get on with selling.

Rick

 

[Frank Stastny]

Amen!

I would add that it should be paid "as earned" or with a 6 month advance at the most and CMS should let us market it the same way we do Medicare Supplement policies and the way agents use to be able to sell MA plans before all this crap began. (God, I hate the advent of PFFS plans.)

This would help new agents who are looking at insurance as a career and hopefully still keep the majority of agents who have heard "there is a lot of money to be made selling MA plans" from jumping in just to make a fast buck.

If it was setup this way it might just keep the greedy ones in the stock room at Wal-Mart where they are working now.

As it stands now agents who are working the senior market in metro areas are pretty well screwed. That is unless they disregard all the crap CMS has come up with.

My guess is that if CMS actually enforces all or their new rules and regs and starts checking with an agents clients that there will be a huge reduction in agents working the senior market in the larger metro areas.

I can forsee agents "bending the rules". Several have already posted some ideas they have come up with. It doesn't matter if other board members or an "FMO" thinks it will still be compliant, the last word is going to come from CMS.

Those agents are grasping at straws trying to find a way around all this crap. The only problem is if one grabs the "short straw" and the DOI doesn't find the humor in it.

 

[jdeasy]

Amen!

I would add that it should be paid "as earned" or with a 6 month advance at the most and CMS should let us market it the same way we do Medicare Supplement policies and the way agents use to be able to sell MA plans before all this crap began. (God, I hate the advent of PFFS plans.)

This would help new agents who are looking at insurance as a career and hopefully still keep the majority of agents who have heard "there is a lot of money to be made selling MA plans" from jumping in just to make a fast buck.

If it was setup this way it might just keep the greedy ones in the stock room at Wal-Mart where they are working now.

As it stands now agents who are working the senior market in metro areas are pretty well screwed. That is unless they disregard all the crap CMS has come up with.

My guess is that if CMS actually enforces all or their new rules and regs and starts checking with an agents clients that there will be a huge reduction in agents working the senior market in the larger metro areas.

I can forsee agents "bending the rules". Several have already posted some ideas they have come up with. It doesn't matter if other board members or an "FMO" thinks it will still be compliant, the last word is going to come from CMS.

Those agents are grasping at straws trying to find a way around all this crap. The only problem is if one grabs the "short straw" and the DOI doesn't find the humor in it.

I agree that is a lot of talk about "bending" the rules. I don't want to bend the rules. I do want to follow the rules. The problem is, every company so far has a different interpretation of the rules. If you call CMS, you will get a different interpretation every time you call. If you can get them to put something in writing for you, that would be a first.

I'm not going after any new MA business. The only ones I will contact are the ones that I have already met with and promised to call back for AEP and I will meet with anyone that calls me. I'm not going to tape record my phone calls. I will have the people sign the scope of appointment form and discuss only what they OK for me talk about at that appointment.

If that falls outside of their rule of the month, then so be it.

 

[midwestbroker]

I agree Frank. We are looking at the rules and doing our best to stay in the rules, but they change every damn day.

Now they say if you have a reply card, you do not need a scope of appointment form since the senior contacted you. That puts us back to where we were all before this started since most of our agency leads are reply cards. All that needs to happen is a copy of the reply card must be turned in with the application.

The only other leads I am working are current clients, so what has changed? I cannot cold call (I did not do that anyway) and I need a scope form when I meet with clients. No prob.

Now if I only knew what I was being paid...as earned, lump sum, I do not care...just pay me for my efforts.

 

[Frank Stastny]

I agree that is a lot of talk about "bending" the rules. I don't want to bend the rules. I do want to follow the rules. The problem is, every company so far has a different interpretation of the rules. If you call CMS, you will get a different interpretation every time you call. If you can get them to put something in writing for you, that would be a first.

I'm not going after any new MA business. The only ones I will contact are the ones that I have already met with and promised to call back for AEP and I will meet with anyone that calls me. I'm not going to tape record my phone calls. I will have the people sign the scope of appointment form and discuss only what they OK for me talk about at that appointment.

If that falls outside of their rule of the month, then so be it.

If you do all that then one has to assume it is a reasonable and proper way to conduct MA business regardless of what CMS says.

I, like you, refuse to give my clients and prospects anything but quality service in helping make a well-informed, intelligent decision regarding their health coverage. CMS is doing a huge disservice to the senior population of this country. I hope it comes back and bites them in the ass.

At the very best each agent is going to have to interpret CMS rules and regs in their own way and be prepared to defend what they did if necessary. The best that can be hoped for is the judge is a senior and has tried to navigate through all this bullshit.

That by no means will leave the agent harmless, just maybe let him sleep better at night.

Thank God I have never gotten into the MA market. It didn't sound like a good thing when I first heard about it and maybe, just maybe, for once I made a "good decision". That's worth putting it on my calendar.
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I agree Frank. We are looking at the rules and doing our best to stay in the rules, but they change every damn day.

Now if I only knew what I was being paid...as earned, lump sum, I do not care...just pay me for my efforts.

I believe all one can do is make sure that everything being done and said is in the best interest of the client/prospect. To me that is the only thing the agent really has to defend.

Since CMS can't make up their mind regarding what is "legal" to do each agent is going to have to do what they are comfortable with.

I think a couple of weeks ago I said we probably won't know anything solid about the commissions until the end of the month. Now it appears that may have been overly optimistic.

 

[scottfree]

I agree Frank. We are looking at the rules and doing our best to stay in the rules, but they change every damn day.

Now they say if you have a reply card, you do not need a scope of appointment form since the senior contacted you. That puts us back to where we were all before this started since most of our agency leads are reply cards. All that needs to happen is a copy of the reply card must be turned in with the application.

The only other leads I am working are current clients, so what has changed? I cannot cold call (I did not do that anyway) and I need a scope form when I meet with clients. No prob.

Now if I only knew what I was being paid...as earned, lump sum, I do not care...just pay me for my efforts.

The main problem here on all these different rules and interpretations with getting these cards signed is even if you do everything in the best interest of the client and you don't submit everything that the company they sign up for says, they probably won't pay any commission. I just got the scope of appointment from Humana and their take on it, not that I will do much with their plans but they have all sorts of hoops to jump through before you can talk to anyone.

 

[MedSuppPro]

I'm going with the Scope Form. People lol when I explain that they have to sign this govenMENTAL form that says they agreed to meet with me before they met with me.

I will avoid recordings. I will use recording as last resort. IMHO recording's have a lot of problems. Kinda like the SS deduction. How are the plans going to police the recording when the app comes in without a Scope Form? Don't ya think they will figure this out by January.

Imagine, one senator can shut CMS down, hog tie the president, and deny millions of seniors the opportunity to switch plans through a personal trusted advisor. CMS needs to get some leadership and say enough is enough. I heard Brownie from Katrina fame is coming back to run CMS.

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[AgentOrange]

I disagree because I want to be on the side of the agent. Why would an agent accept payment over 12 months when he is clear of chargebacks after 3 ? spreading it over those first 3 is ok but no way would I want to risk 3/4 of my commission unnecessarily.

 

[Frank Stastny]

I disagree because I want to be on the side of the agent. Why would an agent accept payment over 12 months when he is clear of chargebacks after 3 ? spreading it over those first 3 is ok but no way would I want to risk 3/4 of my commission unnecessarily.

I am also "on the side of the agent". The honest career agent who is getting screwed by CMS because of all of the "bottom feeders" who have jumped into the MA market because they have heard that "there is a lot of easy money to be made".

That is exactly what one person said in a thread they recently started. Oh, prior to that statement he said he knows nothing about MA plans. A prime example of people getting into this JUST to "make easy money". Pox on them. And, you guessed it, I'm holding back.

I don't understand what you mean when you said "no way would I want to risk 3/4 of my commission unnecessarily".

Why do you think that you are putting your commission at risk? Do you think that you are going to get screwed out of it by the company, the FMO or by CMS? If they are going to screw you out of it they are going to do it anyway and get it back through charge backs or they will VECTOR you. That ain't good if that happens. They have agents by the balls no matter how you look at it.

Take it as earned and do your part to help keep the bottom feeders in the MA market to a minium.

If you are that concerned about getting paid then I would not even sell it if I were you.

 

[seadevil]

This is very reminiscent to me from being in the Navy. If anyone was in the service, rules seemed to change daily. As I told my skipper one day "Damn sir, I'll play the game, just let me know what the rules are!"

I keep telling myself that I also made the right decision in not getting into the MA game. Maybe I was brainwashed from reading Frank's posts.