Nationwide health care

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Taxing all the rich people in the country isn't going to reverse the financial damage for many years. They will tax the rich, they will reinstate the estate tax (slightly modified) and that's about it. They simply don't have the money to change things now.

Some of the worst pandering ever.

During the debates, both Democratic candidates talked about paying for new programs by additional taxes on people making $250,000 per year and above.

What percentage of the population do you think that is? Try 3%.

How much revenue can you raise?

 

[jerrykramer64fan]

The cost to the country would be astronomical so I am only getting at the issue of whether the average joe would be willing to chuck what he has now in favor of paying 96 a month for part B and then the cost of a med supp on top of it. The answer is a resounding yes for a tidal wave of people. N

Winter

Um, what Med Sup?. You are assuming there will be med sups's around. OK, lets say there are, so a family of four each has to pay $96/m per person for their Part B. Now they have to pay $100/m each for the med sup.. Now they all get a PDP @$20/m. Great coverage yes, but $864/m. I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be.

 

[Winter_123]

Um, what Med Sup?. You are assuming there will be med sups's around. OK, lets say there are, so a family of four each has to pay $96/m per person for their Part B. Now they have to pay $100/m each for the med sup.. Now they all get a PDP @$20/m. Great coverage yes, but $864/m. I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be.

I didnt say everyone. I said tidal waves of people which is true. I am in a guaranteed issue state. a 60 year old male could get a comprehensive plan from the two dominant carriers for about 1000 a month or more if a smoker. If they were a little older and on medicare it would be the 96 for part b plus a med supp for 151 and they would have a nice plan. Rates are higher in my state because guaranteed issue is a disaster even though it will be nationwide soon. Nevertheless folks in many categories are paying a lot in all states, particularly if they have health issues (medicare does not rate up or deny and some supps dont either with the exception of renal failure) and a medicare-like plan would be a dream come true for them.

My oriiginal point was only that you are not going to fend off changes by saying to folks "you don't want a plan like medicare do you" because there are many that do. The fact that some dont is not disputed.

Winter

 

[thereaper]

I didnt say everyone. I said tidal waves of people which is true. I am in a guaranteed issue state. a 60 year old male could get a comprehensive plan from the two dominant carriers for about 1000 a month or more if a smoker. If they were a little older and on medicare it would be the 96 for part b plus a med supp for 151 and they would have a nice plan. Rates are higher in my state because guaranteed issue is a disaster even though it will be nationwide soon. Nevertheless folks in many categories are paying a lot in all states, particularly if they have health issues (medicare does not rate up or deny and some supps dont either with the exception of renal failure) and a medicare-like plan would be a dream come true for them.

My oriiginal point was only that you are not going to fend off changes by saying to folks "you don't want a plan like medicare do you" because there are many that do. The fact that some dont is not disputed.

Winter

Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month. I can see that if everyone was offered a medicare like plan that reimbursements would either have to increased or an exodus by physicians to other careers.

Med advantage plans for everyone would certainly put our country down the poop chute with the cost.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month. I can see that if everyone was offered a medicare like plan that reimbursements would either have to increased or an exodus by physicians to other careers.

So what? Let 'em go. There's no shortage of physicians.

A lot of 'em are moaning because their income is down from $600,000 per year, and now they have to slum it on $400,000.

There's an awful lot of people that would be happy to do it for $300,000...

 

[somarco]

Medicare and to a lesser extent, Medicaid, put a strain on the PCP side. Most new docs bypass primary care in favor of specialty's. Existing PCP's are limiting the number of Medicare/Medicaid patients they see and some are converting to cash only to avoid having any M/M patients.

Any form of nationalized health care will only compound this problem.

In spite of what ignorant voters and lying politicians say, the system cannot support "free" health insurance.

 

[LGilmore]

"I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be."

The general public thinks there is going to be no cost. It's free healthcare after all, what do you mean I have to still pay for it?

Not enough people realize it's just a game of musical chairs with premiums. All these programs address is where the premium (or tax) money goes before it goes onto medical providers.

They aren't addressing cost or cause of health care because that would mean that the average citizen would actually have to do something physical to improve their health.

The government on BOTH sides has abandoned what they should be doing to improve the health of Americans. They just want to control the cash flow and get theirs.

What the government should have been doing all along is building more parks, encouraging more physical activity and creating incentives for an active lifestyle.

Instead they take 20 years to build a kids ballfield, they abandoned the presidents council on physical fitness (remember those tests back in the 60's?) shortchange parks and hiking trails and so on. The things the government were supposed to be doing they've been cutting for decades...

America is the only country where overconsumption is killing the population. Our cost of healthcare is directly tied to this situation. If the government truly wanted to improve healthcare in America, they simply wouldn't have dropped the ball on the things they could do and should have been doing all this time.

They could have been doing little things to help improve lifestyles... hell the canadians give their citizens a tax break if their kids play youth sports.... little things that help create a healthy lifestyle.

Aw now I'm just pissed at how stupid Americans are to believe the government can do it better. They can't live up to their responsibilities now....

 

[Winter_123]

Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month.

A democratically controlled executive and legislative branch, which is probably coming, will restore those cuts to the physicans. The money will come from the excess reimbursements to MAPD plans so you can count on major hits to MA plans. The zero premium plans will have to move up to a premium and the plans that already have a premium will increase, thus narrowing the gap between the advantages of an MA over a supp.

If McCain gets elected that will not happen. I am voting for McCain but would not bet a dime on him. I think it is a democratic year, barring an obama scandal, as discussed previously.

I also agree with the other post that said if the physicians want to get out of medicare, good riddance. We need to be training more primary care docs with experience in geriatrics anyway and there are lots of opportunities as we go forward to waive medical education costs and other expenses for physicians who agree to serve that population. Unlimited number of ideas and opportunities should arise.

Winter

Winter

 

[GreenSky]

So what? Let 'em go. There's no shortage of physicians.

A lot of 'em are moaning because their income is down from $600,000 per year, and now they have to slum it on $400,000.

There's an awful lot of people that would be happy to do it for $300,000...

According to wikipedia:

Medical specialty Salary in US[25]
Family practitioner $129,400
General practitioner $135,600
Internist $131,200
Pediatrician $128,700

It takes about $300,000 and most of a person's life between 22 and 30 to become a doctor. Do you think they'll make more with government funded health care?

How many of us are happy with "only" $130,000? And how many of us want to work 60+ hours a week to earn that?

$130,000 income isn't even enough to think about qualifying for a loan to buy a nice home in Southern California. Hell, you can earn that by selling health insurance with hardly any education. Who would have thought that what we do likely earns more than our own doctor?

Rick

 

[Winter_123]

Do you think they'll make more with government funded health care?

It is actually an interesting question. Arguably, if those low physician salaries are valid is does make a case for becoming a government funded physician for some anway. You make almost that much and have benefits and a retirement plan etc and dont have to hustle and borrow to build a practice. Actually, I have seen and I suppose it is a trend, a growth in the number of physicians who are employees. It may not be government, more often, they are hired by the explosive number of hospital affiliated practice groups that participate in the physicians training and then hire them as employees. So, many are headed in that direction already. I don't different it would be for them if they went to work for the VA or some yet-to-be invented government program. They are not on the solo or group practice mega-bucks track anyway. They are health care essentially health workers just as in the National Health System in Britain. The more expensive medical education comes and the more expensive it is to start your own practice the more young docs will continue to gravitate toward this type of employement, which usually involves some type of load pay-off assistance as well.

Winter