Smarmy weasely sarcastic replies from a new poster with a big mouth but not much to say tends to invite the reaction you have received. It just works that way. It's not personal.
- 10,806
X2
This is supposed to be a professional forum (for the most part);
as a professional in this industry you have an obligation to your clients to keep yourself educated of the facts in an often quickly changing environment.
You also have an obligation to keep an open mind to new innovations within the industry that could potentially benefit your clients. And to independently educate yourself using factual data.
(One clients yearly summary is not definitive proof of anything but that one contract and the choices made within it)
You also have an obligation to carry yourself in a manner befitting a professional who is responsible for families life savings and financial futures.
I dont think that anyone who has spent anytime at all on this forum would say that Larry is anything but professional on here. He is here to learn and share knowledge.
All that being said; we have very little patience with people who are not here to learn or to share knowledge.
We have tried to share knowledge.
Yes, we have have done so at times in not the most professional manner; but you get what you give, thats life.
And for Larry (who usually stays away from harsh criticism on this forum) to speak as strongly has he has, means some pretty outlandish things were said.
KJ has shared nothing other than his opinion based off of one clients yearly statement.
I guarantee you he did not read the actual contract.
I will say this again, he is a danger to his clients.
He and people like him are a danger to our industry.
We also need mandatory CE hours before attaining the right to sell.
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- 1,641
My state and others are now requiring 4ce credits to sell annuities. While it's a step in the right direction, the number needs to be higher. To sell ltc requires 16 hours (8 live), and 4 hours every year. Wish they would boost the numbers up for annuities.
- 11,503
You must be in CA, cause that explains our own requirements.
No, we don't need more "CE" or anything else to be MANDATED by anyone. I find it interesting that CE or designations have almost NOTHING to do with actual learning! (And I do have the ChFC designation myself.)
I've noticed that most CE courses are really watered down and I don't get much of anything out of them. They're cheap, and I can usually get about 30 hours of CE done in about an hour.
We need agents to LEARN this industry for their own reasons. We need good leaders to TEACH these agents. We need good courses for them to take.
Oh wait, we have:
- LUTCF courses with one specifically on annuities
- Company mandated training courses & webinars
- Conventions, seminars, webinars, & tele-conferences
But what we DON'T have are agents who can learn how to THINK and ANALYZE products for their clients and proper applications of them.
I think there are too many agents who say: "Wow! That's a great commission on that product! I wonder who I can "sucker" into that product for a maximum commission???"
One of the companies I work with is ANICO (American National). I like their portfolio of annuities (they have about 10). I've chosen to stick with about 4 of those 10 for my clients. I picked them based on what I would buy myself, not necessarily based on the compensation I would receive as the agent.
Also, the more I like the product, the easier time I'll have in explaining and selling it.
But if agents DON'T learn, or CAN'T learn, they'll be discovered for the idiots they are, and they'll fail out of this industry as quickly as they got in it.
No, we don't need more "CE" or anything else to be MANDATED by anyone. I find it interesting that CE or designations have almost NOTHING to do with actual learning! (And I do have the ChFC designation myself.)
I've noticed that most CE courses are really watered down and I don't get much of anything out of them. They're cheap, and I can usually get about 30 hours of CE done in about an hour.
We need agents to LEARN this industry for their own reasons. We need good leaders to TEACH these agents. We need good courses for them to take.
Oh wait, we have:
- LUTCF courses with one specifically on annuities
- Company mandated training courses & webinars
- Conventions, seminars, webinars, & tele-conferences
But what we DON'T have are agents who can learn how to THINK and ANALYZE products for their clients and proper applications of them.
I think there are too many agents who say: "Wow! That's a great commission on that product! I wonder who I can "sucker" into that product for a maximum commission???"
One of the companies I work with is ANICO (American National). I like their portfolio of annuities (they have about 10). I've chosen to stick with about 4 of those 10 for my clients. I picked them based on what I would buy myself, not necessarily based on the compensation I would receive as the agent.
Also, the more I like the product, the easier time I'll have in explaining and selling it.
But if agents DON'T learn, or CAN'T learn, they'll be discovered for the idiots they are, and they'll fail out of this industry as quickly as they got in it.
- 337
Hey, can we move on or what?
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Are you serious! Because I do not like FIA's you say this? I have some great people above me who are good mentors... this part of your statement is a joke, it is just like recommending FIA's to everyone you meet!!
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- 11,503
OMFG! What the hell just happened???
I'm AGREEING with KJ???
(I think I'm entering the twilight zone...)
I'm AGREEING with KJ???
(I think I'm entering the twilight zone...)
Go back and read your posts, and it should be clear as to why you got the responses you did. (Hint... it's not because you don't like FIAs)
- 10,806
Not because you dont like IAs, but because you dont keep an open and objective mind when it comes to our industry.
Also, from the facts you have presented; you formed your opinion about one of the fastest growing products on the market from one clients annual statement.... this is no way to form an educated opinion on a subject... especially when you are advising clients on that subject
(that is a dangerous thing to clients, especially when you are advising clients to replace a product that you do not understand (its clear that you dont understand IAs at all)).
You very well could have done the right thing with the client you mentioned, I am not saying otherwise; Allianz annuities suck imo, I would never recommend them.
But the fact that your soliciting replacements of a product that you do not understand is without question a danger to the consumer; just because you havent messed up yet, does not mean it wont happen; the likely hood is very high.
And when peoples life savings and financial futures are at stake you owe your client more than that!
A well educated opinion/position is perfectly fine; one bred of willful ignorance and emotional bias is not fine.
And again, is a danger to our industry.
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I actually agree, most CE courses are crap. That being said, you can find some OK stuff out there if you look.
While its not always the most interesting learning, there are some decent retirement planning based CE courses out there.
I actually printed out all 100+ pages of one I took last year, and still refer to it. It actually had some good stuff.
But the catch is that I had to go through about 10 web sites before I found SC approved courses that sounded halfway decent.
The "getting 30 hours done in 1 hour" type of deal is the problem. (I realize you do this out of a lack of quality material)
The whole CE credit system needs an overhaul.
Most of the basics of the industry could very easily be taught through CE classes if they were structured decently.
Also, many on here have mentioned a mandatory apprenticeship type of thing.
That would be ideal. Being forced to team up with an agent who has at least 5 years in the industry and being forced to do only joint work for the first year would help immensely.
But back to CE credits; for KJs situation, I guarantee that if he took 20 hours of credits on the workings of an insurance company/annuities/retirement planning/etc (and actually payed attention and read it); he would be in a much more informed position than he is in now...... if he just takes any random CE course then it would do no good, but he could at least learn some of the simple basics.
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- 2,455
Instead of grouping the insurance exam all together with the different types of fields such has health/med supp/annuities/life, what they should do is make you learn them separately.
It's different though with annuities in respect to the products and how each one works (excluding V/A). I'm certified with every company I represent and we have a training class every Monday night right now at our office for any rep who would like to come. I't mandatory for anyone on our team. Last week the outside wholesaler for ING in our Central Florida area was there.
We also have experienced producers who are willing (sometimes you have to beg) to go out on appointments with newbies. Of course they get a small overide and a cut but hey getting something verses nothing along with the experience is a pretty good deal.
You can take all the CE credits you want and I'm sure they do help but having a mentor is the best IMO.
