Sanctuary Cities - where We Headed?

[Winter_123]

Yes, no rise in the flooded rivers of illegal immigrants.

Look sparky, there shouldn't be ANY illegal immigrants; zero, zip nada.

It's like saying there is no rise in the numbers of gangland murders in a Democrat controlled city, and we should all be happy with the status quo.

Even if everything Orange said about Bush were correct- and it is not- he fails to note that the Republicans put an end to both the Bush and Clinton dynasties in the recent election. Jeb started down the road of taking a namby-pamby, look-the-the-other-way, all-is-love campaign approach toward immigration and he never even got past square one. A total rejection of Jeb and anything/anyone in the party that looked like Bush 2.0. If the republicans had nominated Jeb or some version of Jeb then I can see where it might be appropriate to replay what Bush did because that same approach could re-appear. No need to worry about that now. Trump will succeed or fail as Trump- not as a continuation of the Bush dynasty.

 

[AgentOrange]

Bush returned more illegals than Obama did. Bush returned over eight million through simple returns. You catch them coming across the border - you load em up in the buses and send them back.

Obama did more formal deportations but fewer returns.

Net net. The number of undocumented getting booted out was far, far greater under Bush.


And the influx of immigrants was suppressed under Obama because the economy was so poor. Even had a lot more voluntrary returns.


You have just supported Hillary for years in a trance-like state and Hillary was 100% in favor of 100% open borders- anything goes. So why would you even bother to get into the business of trying to make the case about who did or did not deport more as though deporting more was a good thing and your ilk would be doing more. That's nuts.

It doesn't matter as much right now anyway. I know you have a lot of energy and full program for defending Obama's legacy. Right now people want to hold Trump accountable for improving the situation. Or after Jan 20 anyway. We are all pretty sure that if Trump reduces the flow of illegals bigly that you would be arguing that Obama did better. That's fine- your ilk has no power right now and we will deal with all your bogus claims in the next election, especially if Hillary is running again.

Don't spread yourself too thin. You have to defend his lack of action on ISIS -other than this latest campaign stunt to help Hillary, his failure to bring about a real wage increase, his failure to achieve employment in any way other than getting people to drop out, his complete and total failure to implement a functioning health insurance program, his failure to stand up to Iran, Russia, and China, his failure in Afg, and his complete failure to implement a debt reduction plan. So dont blow all your energy on this immigration thing. You have an entire legacy that is in the toilet that you need to protect.

gig.

Deportations and returns are two completely different things. Get back to me when you figure it out. Here's a hint, it has to do with the constitution.

The sanctuary city thing isn't what is the problem either. It's the backlog of cases. If Trump were serious about "improving the situation" he would increase the number of judges and prosecutors and all the support workers that go along with that. This is where he can make inroads.

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Even if everything Orange said about Bush were correct- and it is not- he fails to note that the Republicans put an end to both the Bush and Clinton dynasties in the recent election. Jeb started down the road of taking a namby-pamby, look-the-the-other-way, all-is-love campaign approach toward immigration and he never even got past square one. A total rejection of Jeb and anything/anyone in the party that looked like Bush 2.0. If the republicans had nominated Jeb or some version of Jeb then I can see where it might be appropriate to replay what Bush did because that same approach could re-appear. No need to worry about that now. Trump will succeed or fail as Trump- not as a continuation of the Bush dynasty.

No. This has been a recurring problem with republicans, they create major problems like illegal immigration or financial calamity and complain when democrats have to clean up their mess. There is a human element in a lot of this. Republicans weren't complaining in 2002 when they pushing the housing market and builders needed labor, they loved the cheap labor. Now they have no use for these people despite their contributions to this country. And just because Trump got elected doesn't change that either. The truth is there isn't even 50 republican votes to deport long standing undocumented workers.

 

[Winter_123]

Deportations and returns are two completely different things. Get back to me when you figure it out. Here's a hint, it has to do with the constitution.


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I actually understand it and the constitution better than you- as well as the difference between returns and deportations. That is why I explained it to you in my post.

You tried to give the impression that Obama had sent more back because he did more court reviewed deportations. However, Bush actually sent more back if you include returns.

This is not Shopping Mall Community College. You are outside your element with some of this and your spin is seen for what it is.

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There is a human element in a lot of this. .

Indeed there is and both blacks and hispanics see that the Dems don't really care about them, they just want their votes.

Obama did nothing about introducing a bill for comprehensive immigration reform despite the fact that he started with both houses and the white house being controlled by dems. He told hispnics that he had to focus on Obamacare. Then later he exempted himself from doing any hard work with the excuse that the republicans would not agree to anything so why bother.

In the end, because he is a loser when it comes to bridge building and working with Congress, he tried his Executive Order fiasco- which as we have seen, could evaporate like a puff of smoke when shot down by either the courts or a change of presidents.

He and the other Dems are losers and users when it comes to Hispanics. And then three months before the election, Obama went down to Cuba to kiss Fidel a big wet kiss to make sure that he alienated all the Cuban-American hispanics- most who are republican but their were and are democratic votes among the younger generations. Meanwhile, Hillary was depending on a high turn out of hispanics to compensate for her lack of votes among the deplorables. Good luck with dat.

In any case, your soliloquies to defend Obama are something you can take up with the dems as they try to understand why they are in shamble. In case you have not noticed, the voters have already decided on how good a job the dems did with things.

 

[AgentOrange]

I actually understand it and the constitution better than you- as well as the difference between returns and deportations. That is why I explained it to you in my post.

You tried to give the impression that Obama had sent more back because he did more court reviewed deportations. However, Bush actually sent more back if you include returns.

This is not Shopping Mall Community College. You are outside your element with some of this and your spin is seen for what it is.
.

Wrong, I gave the impression Obama deported more people than any other president and Trump will be lucky if he can match that number. The turn arounds is dependent on the inflow of people crossing the border, Bush simply had more people crossing the border for the reasons previously discussed. He nor the republicans ever addressed deportations or the border for that matter.

As to your binary choice, you will find agreement with me at some time in the future, just as you did when you flopping around about Clinton and the FBI and I told you the best recourse was a special prosecutor.

The fact is ICE does a good job and the border is secure and Sanctuary cities are a red herring - the biggest problem is in the judiciary process because anyone on US land or territories are afforded due process because the 14th amendment applies to people here without proper documentation - each and every single one of the millions. Trying to force sanctuary cities to hand over J-walkers will only muck the system up even more and cause major revolts in the most economically critical areas of our country.

 

[Winter_123]

The fact is ICE does a good job and the border is secure.

Ahhh, ok. And your definition of secure is...?


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Trying to force sanctuary cities to hand over J-walkers will only muck the system up even more and cause major revolts in the most economically critical areas of our country.

I see. So this is all about jaywalkers.

 

[AgentOrange]

Ahhh, ok. And your definition of secure is...?


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I see. So this is all about jaywalkers.

Secure meaning there is a functioning enforcement agency, properly funded keeping people from coming into this country illegally.

It is about Jay walkers because you dont understand the judicial process is not equipped to process minor violations for deportation. You want to hold some very unfortunate stories as proof our system can process millions of people a year. It can't. You can hand these people over to ICE but then a bottleneck happens, beds fill and the people who are known to be violent will not be processed. We simply dont have the capacity to process low level offenders.

I am telling you, as the situation stands today, sanctuary cities are a red herring. Coming down on these cities, with the current judicial capacity, will result in little, if any net gains in deportations. The Obama administration has been deporting people at a full tilt pace...

From the Cato Institute---

The Obama administration has deported 2.5 million illegal immigrants. This record-setting pace of deportations holds up even when counting only those from the interior of the United States — 1.18 million of them under Obama's watch. By contrast, the Bush administration deported 2 million people and a confirmed 555,164 from the interior of the United States. Interior deportation numbers for the first two years of the Bush administration aren't available but under any realistic assumption his numbers could not possibly exceed Obama's.

The chance that an illegal immigrant will be deported under the Obama administration is an average of 1.48 a year compared to 0.83 percent under the Bush administration. The Obama administration has surged enforcement immigration laws against employers — issuing 15.5 times as many fines against employers and 8.3 times as many arrests for violating immigration laws as his predecessor. Detention for those who crossed the border has also increased under the Obama administration — including for many of the roughly 227,000 children and families who have surged across the border since 2010.

The lesson of his mixed legacy is that immigration enforcement cannot solve the illegal immigration problem and executive actions to legalize them are just a temporary and partial solution.

And this is all on the heels of expanding a small Bush-era interior enforcement program called Secure Communities (S-COMM) from just a handful of jurisdictions to virtually the entire country. S-COMM forced local police departments to cooperate with the federal government in removing illegal immigrants they arrested. S-COMM's purpose was to remove dangerous criminals but it had zero effect on actual crime rates according to research published in the prestigious Journal of Law and Economics and the journal of Criminology and Public Policy. In 2015, the Obama administration replaced S-COMM with a more targeted program whereby the government primarily goes after serious offenders.

There is just no two ways about it, President Obama initiated and expanded a harsher immigration enforcement regime than President Bush or any other President in American history.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/president-obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration

 

[Winter_123]

 

[AgentOrange]

Lets hope the Trump administration can differentiate between returns and deportations and doesn't set policy based on willful ignorance.

 

[jerry176]

Lets hope the Trump administration can differentiate between returns and deportations and doesn't set policy based on willful ignorance.

I wonder if all the folks flooding over our open borders wonder if they have a little "willfull Ingnorance" about our existing laws that should be enforced, and be removed from our country, whether it be returned or deported.

The laws must be enforced.

 

[AgentOrange]

I wonder if all the folks flooding over our open borders wonder if they have a little "willfull Ingnorance" about our existing laws that should be enforced, and be removed from our country, whether it be returned or deported.

The laws must be enforced.

Look the election is over, it's time to sober up. Obama has made great improvements in border security and deportations. The idea that millions of people are flooding over our borders are as much of a myth as millions of people illegally voting in our elections.

Donald Trump and republicans will be accountable very shortly. What is important is that his administration doesn't govern based on the myths that got him elected because in the real world you can't solve problems without accurate information.