Thoughts on NY Life and Northwestern

[DHK]

The poster is trying to determine which company he should join.

The poster has barely been back since he started his threads.

 

[walthamny]

I am not talking about numbers; that's a whole other idea. Rather I am referring to the contractual provisions that make up every policy. There are several that may come into play and can make a real difference to a particular policy owner. For instance, NWM is the only company I know of that will pay the death benefit if death occurs due to suicide during the second policy year (it's in the contract).

My NWM policies are quite old and the last dividend I received was just under $20,000. What happens if I were to die a month before the anniversary of the contract? With NWM, here is what my beneficiary would receive: "A dividend for the period from the beginning of the policy year to the date of the insured's death will be payable as part of the policy proceeds". See if you can find that in a different company's contract. Not living to the anniversary date can be costly.

I am not saying that NYL is not a fine company. The poster is trying to determine which company he should join. How favorable a company's contractual provisions are for the policy owner is a certainly something I would care about if I were selling.

A.M. Best reports that for 2023, NWM's lapse ratio is 20% lower than NYL's (3.5 % vs. 4.4%). Let me quickly follow up with the fact that NYL's lapse ratio is excellent! There are so very many yardsticks with which to measure one company against another.

You can make the same level arguments with NY Life policies. They have riders that NWM does not have. It seems like you have only listened to the NWM side. One big difference is the recent claim experience. When September 11 happened NYL was the first life insurance company to waive the policy beneficiaries for getting a death certificate issued. It was not possible for NYC to suddenly issue 3000 plus death certificates NYL took their own agents word that the person works at WTC. NWM took their time on that day. And on a side note NWM had many more policies than NYL sold on the upper floors of WTC. So there is more to the insurance contract. When USA had the worse attack since Pearl Harbour, NYL was first to pay claims.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Any company will payout a partial dividend upon a death a termination dividend is not unique to NML.
What do they do with that dividend?
Add it to your db or do they actually purchase the additions if that is your dividend option? I know 1 company that purchases the additions.
A lapse ratio is extremely misleading.
If you are working in business markets your lapse ratios tend to be a bit higher as companies do go out of business.
Reinsurance also plays a part in lapse ratios.
What is their own occ on waiver? 2 years?
What GIO options do they have?
At NY Life when the insured dies the beneficiary can take the DB and purchase a single life policy with no underwriting.
Does NML do this ....no.
Does NML have contractual loan rates that decrease as you policy grows older? No they do not others do.
NML is a fine policy and you made a good purchase but every company has some features others do not.
It is certainly not a reason for choosing one office over another

 

[slipknot]

Any company will payout a partial dividend upon a death a termination dividend is not unique to NML.
What do they do with that dividend?
Add it to your db or do they actually purchase the additions if that is your dividend option? I know 1 company that purchases the additions.
A lapse ratio is extremely misleading.
If you are working in business markets your lapse ratios tend to be a bit higher as companies do go out of business.
Reinsurance also plays a part in lapse ratios.
What is their own occ on waiver? 2 years?
What GIO options do they have?
At NY Life when the insured dies the beneficiary can take the DB and purchase a single life policy with no underwriting.
Does NML do this ....no.
Does NML have contractual loan rates that decrease as you policy grows older? No they do not others do.
NML is a fine policy and you made a good purchase but every company has some features others do not.
It is certainly not a reason for choosing one office over another

The dividend is not a termination dividend. Is it in the contract that companies pay a dividend at death. Most, no. I was going to explain why lapse ratios are not at all misleading but you are on some other mission. If someone who does not feel the need to list item after item trying to show a company as better than another with no documentation asks me, I'll provide an answer. You are a time waster, not a person trying to help another.

 

[Lloyds of Lubbock]

Thank you for your personal attack.
What is my mission....did I promote one company and say they were the best? I don't think so.
Did I not say NML is a fine company and you bought a good product.
If you don't feel lapse ratios are misleading that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion.....as I am mine.
I have helped a fair number of people on this forum.
You are upset that someone disagreed with you.
I really didn't, all I said was each company will have different aspects of it's contract and each one can make a case why they are better.
I also took the time to highlight a few.
It is why every company has a competition unit.
I hope you have a nice day.

 

[slipknot]

Interesting! I had never heard that before. I have heard that one can broker with NWM, but I don't know how one could go about that, other than what you just mentioned.

Two things that would still be a turn-off for me:
1) Their corporate culture. (Same with NYL - I could never fit in those environments now.)
2) They lower your renewal compensation (penalize the agent) when a client borrows against their policies. Which, to me, means you're disincentivized from showing people how they can really use and harness their policies.

NWM absolutely does not lower the agents commission. I have no knowledge of NYL's practices but lowering an agents commission is absurd. Also it is not possible to broker with Northwestern. They have a no-brokerage rule and if an agent assists you, he will be terminated.

 

[DHK]

NWM absolutely does not lower the agents commission.

Not the initial commission. The renewal compensation.

Yes, they do. Check your contract. This was confirmed to me by a personal friend and agent of NWM since 2012. He has a full alphabet soup after his name and has been a Field Director for a time as well.

 

[slipknot]

Thank you for your personal attack.
What is my mission....did I promote one company and say they were the best? I don't think so.
Did I not say NML is a fine company and you bought a good product.
If you don't feel lapse ratios are misleading that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion.....as I am mine.
I have helped a fair number of people on this forum.
You are upset that someone disagreed with you.
I really didn't, all I said was each company will have different aspects of it's contract and each one can make a case why they are better.
I also took the time to highlight a few.
It is why every company has a competition unit.
I hope you have a nice day.

You lost me when you said lapse rates are misleading. I can not imagine why you feel that way. Please explain. I do not think that A.M. Best reports lapse ratio's in a misleading way. I do not believe that reinsurance affects lapse ratios. Please explain.

Lloyds of Lubbock, I see by the number of posts you have made that you have likely helped many people. I think you would help people even more if instead of writing statements of what you think, you restricted your posts to statements that you know. Also, knowing that most of your posts will be read by people who do not have a deep understanding of such topics, you might offer some explanation or documentation of what you say. For instance "lapse ratios are misleading" or "reinsurance affects lapse ratios". As I asked above, how are lapse ratios misleading and how does reinsurance affect lapse ratios.

I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention. I just find it disturbing when someone makes false unsupported statements. (no offense)

 

[DHK]

Let me help you for Lloyds: He's had a very long successful career. He actually retired not too long ago. CLU and ChFC holder.

Try not to get too triggered on here. We do quite a bit of banter and asking for clarity is certainly good and warranted, but don't get too worked up over it.

 

[slipknot]

Not the initial commission. The renewal compensation.

Yes, they do. Check your contract. This was confirmed to me by a personal friend and agent of NWM since 2012. He has a full alphabet soup after his name and has been a Field Director for a time as well.

I suggest that your friend has misunderstood something. Ask him to show you in his contract. He could copy the appropriate paragraph(s) and e-mail them to you.