Tickets Question

[carqmang]

Lets say you got a ticket 4 years ago and you went to traffic school. You are getting insurance today and they ask you if you have had any tickets in the last 5 years. Do they expect you to say yes? If they expect you to say yes, what is the point of traffic school can you legally tell them no?

Another question, lets say you had 2 speeding tickets in the last 5 years and you took traffic school for one of them but you couldn't for the second one because it was too soon. Are you supposed to tell them about both?

Can they legally charge you more money if you had speeding ticket within the last 5 years but you have no current points on your record? If so what is the point of having laws about them being able to charge you more for points on your record if they could just charge you more based on their own judgments?

This is all for California in case you were wondering.

 

[Mike Haskins]

Can't speak to California law but in Texas, if you go to traffic school, it wipes the ticket off of your record. You can then honestly say you don't have a traffic violation.

And some companies have a 5 year look back on tickets and accidents. Varies by company and state.

 

[Josh]

Lets say you got a ticket 4 years ago and you went to traffic school. You are getting insurance today and they ask you if you have had any tickets in the last 5 years. Do they expect you to say yes? If they expect you to say yes, what is the point of traffic school can you legally tell them no?

Another question, lets say you had 2 speeding tickets in the last 5 years and you took traffic school for one of them but you couldn't for the second one because it was too soon. Are you supposed to tell them about both?

Can they legally charge you more money if you had speeding ticket within the last 5 years but you have no current points on your record? If so what is the point of having laws about them being able to charge you more for points on your record if they could just charge you more based on their own judgments?

This is all for California in case you were wondering.

A few things:

First, the carrier is going to run your MVR and they'll find out.

Second, if they ask if you had any tickets, they're asking if you have any tickets. This probably means telling them that you have received the ticket.

Third, they're not usually asking if you have a ticket or not, you're innocent until proven guilty. What they're asking about is traffic infractions and the like, actually convictions, not what the original ticket was written for.

Fourth, if in exchange for you going to traffic school the state agreed to waive the violation then as far as the insurance goes, it didn't happen.

Fifth, if the traffic school only removed the points from the infraction, but it still shows up on your MVR, it's still a conviction and it's likely going to impact your rates. Your current ticket that hasn't been resolved isn't an infraction so there wouldn't (usually) be a need to report it unless the question asks about any pending charges (which is unlikely with speeding tickets).

With respect to "can they legally charge you more money", absolutely. The fact of the matter is that it sounds like twice in the last five years you've been driving above the speed limit and as such your more of a risk for having a claim. Because of that the insurance carrier should charge you a premium in relation to the amount of additional risk you are because of your documented unsafe driving habits.

Slow down

 

[carqmang]

A few things:

First, the carrier is going to run your MVR and they'll find out.

Second, if they ask if you had any tickets, they're asking if you have any tickets. This probably means telling them that you have received the ticket.

Third, they're not usually asking if you have a ticket or not, you're innocent until proven guilty. What they're asking about is traffic infractions and the like, actually convictions, not what the original ticket was written for.

Fourth, if in exchange for you going to traffic school the state agreed to waive the violation then as far as the insurance goes, it didn't happen.

Fifth, if the traffic school only removed the points from the infraction, but it still shows up on your MVR, it's still a conviction and it's likely going to impact your rates. Your current ticket that hasn't been resolved isn't an infraction so there wouldn't (usually) be a need to report it unless the question asks about any pending charges (which is unlikely with speeding tickets).

With respect to "can they legally charge you more money", absolutely. The fact of the matter is that it sounds like twice in the last five years you've been driving above the speed limit and as such your more of a risk for having a claim. Because of that the insurance carrier should charge you a premium in relation to the amount of additional risk you are because of your documented unsafe driving habits.

Slow down

Can you run your own MVR to see what is on there?

I know that there are laws in place that allow an insurance company to charge you more money when you get points on your record. Given that we know this how does it make any sense that without any points on your record they can charge you more just because they want to? What is the point of that? I just want to understand the logic behind it.

 

[best14rates]

Not sure how it is in your state but here accidents stay on your insurance record for 5 years and tickets for 3 years school or no school

 

[Josh]

Can you run your own MVR to see what is on there?

In some states you can. If you ask an independent agent they may be able to run it for you, there is a cost associated with it.

I know that there are laws in place that allow an insurance company to charge you more money when you get points on your record. Given that we know this how does it make any sense that without any points on your record they can charge you more just because they want to? What is the point of that? I just want to understand the logic behind it.

Forget about the points altogether, that's not what's relevant. Like I said early, people that get caught driving fast tend to drive fast more often than just the time(s) they get caught. People who drive fast are more likely to get into car accidents than people who abide by the laws of the land. California is a goofy state in a number of ways, but one of note is that they don't use credit to determine risk.

It's all about the math, if the actuaries at the insurance company know that folks with two speeding tickets in the last five years are 25% more likely to have a claim, then they should be charged a premium relative to that risk, it's just math. Points may be a way of evaluating that to a degree and it's possible that some carriers do their risk assessment based off that, but the question wasn't "how many points do you have?" it's "what traffic infractions have you had?" or something along those lines.

 

[carqmang]

In some states you can. If you ask an independent agent they may be able to run it for you, there is a cost associated with it.




Forget about the points altogether, that's not what's relevant. Like I said early, people that get caught driving fast tend to drive fast more often than just the time(s) they get caught. People who drive fast are more likely to get into car accidents than people who abide by the laws of the land. California is a goofy state in a number of ways, but one of note is that they don't use credit to determine risk.

It's all about the math, if the actuaries at the insurance company know that folks with two speeding tickets in the last five years are 25% more likely to have a claim, then they should be charged a premium relative to that risk, it's just math. Points may be a way of evaluating that to a degree and it's possible that some carriers do their risk assessment based off that, but the question wasn't "how many points do you have?" it's "what traffic infractions have you had?" or something along those lines.

I'm not going to just forget about points, they do matter and as far as I know there are laws regarding them as far as they can dictate that an insurance company can charge you more money and so somehow that has to be able to fit into how much they can charge you.

That said I checked the CA DMV website and did a DL Record request and it said none for everything so I assume my record is completely clear with no points on it (like I expected) the laws of driving the speed limit are mostly there it generate insurance companies more money as well as make money for the state. Did you know that humans are not perfect and that they set the speed limits too low compared to what can be driven safely on the road you are on? Yes it happens all the time but the law doesn't care because they get money out of it.

That said, you said if they check my MVR they are going to see it. Well when I checked my DMV record it showed accidents: none, convictions:none, departmental actions: none.





Speeding is very low on the list of what causes accidents.




Again, I don't feel I should be penalized for something they don't even have a legal right to charge me for.

 

[Josh]

the laws of driving the speed limit are mostly there it generate insurance companies more money as well as make money for the state. Did you know that humans are not perfect and that they set the speed limits too low compared to what can be driven safely on the road you are on? .

Could you show your studies on that?

Here's one SPEED LIMIT INCREASES AND ACCIDENT RATES

The NCHRP study found that higher speed limits were associated with an increased likelihood of deaths and incapacitating injuries. It found that increasing a speed limit from 55 to 65 mph on an "average" section of high speed road resulted in about a 3% increase in the total number of crashes and a 24% increase in the likelihood that a vehicle occupant would be fatally injured. This increased crash rate would yield a 28% increase in the number of fatalities following the speed limit increase.

According to this study it actually did slightly increase the chance of an accident and it had a significant increase in the likelihood of a death. I'm not an adjuster, but I suspect that the amount of damage done at a higher speed accident that is more likely to cause a fatality also increases the amount of overall damage, and the claim amount.

As an imperfect human I'm familiar with the nature of our existence in that respect. In fact, even my cruise control isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn close.

You can justify your speeding however you want, in your situation it looks like it never hit the books so you're not going to see a rate increase. I'm not sure what laws you're referencing about why they can't charge you for tickets vs the number of points. It's possible that CA has a goofy law about that, but in most states it has to do with the traffic infractions you're found guilty of, not the points associated with them.

 

[blue_wynd]

You also need to know states have points to grade your driving history. If you get certain amount of points over a certain period, your license will be suspended. The points given varies based on the violation. So the points should be viewed separately from your infractions. So in your example, just because you took a class to remove your points doesn't mean the insurance companies have to automatically ignore that violation. You are combining the two when it should be viewed separately. But hey, your state laws might be different.

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Something you can use. Just go to your local agent and ask for a quote. The question of if you have any traffic ticket is so that they can get an accurate quote before running the mvr. Running MVRs can cost the agent money, so we try to ask the questions first to get the most accurate quote in order to not waste everyone's time and cost the agency money when you walk away. Just said no and have them run the mvr and clue for the final quote. If the reports comes back clean than the price is the same, if it doesn't the premium will be increased to reflect it.

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Oh, and don't waste the agent time if you are just looking for an answer to your question. Please only ask for quotes from your local agent if you really are looking for a new agent to service your insurance plan. Call the call centers of the insurance companies that sell directly to consumers if you really want that answer.

 

[USF3983]

I look up citations on the county public record websites without having to order an MVR. They're only $10 here in Florida though (used to be $3 a few years ago).

It is important for you to find out if adjudication was withheld or if the citation was dropped or if they decided not to prosecute (nolle prosequi). These are the things I look for when deciding if I think a ticket is going to come up on an MVR. I took a class once but I apparently took it too late so my ticket did show up.

It is customary in Florida for adjudication to be withheld when you are taking the class and having points removed.