Whine, Moan, and Complain

[Guest]

There must be a half dozen current and recent threads about the various proposals to change the health financing system... and all of them are basically the sound of agents moaning about how it won't work, it can't be paid for, and will ruin health care as we know it... yada, yada.

So instead of bitching, why don't you guys DO SOMETHING?

Why don't you join your local NAHU chapters or (and I love this!) contribute some of your cash to the thousand and one interest groups who want to see the status quo preserved?

Why don't you write letters to your elected representatives as well as the incoming administration majordomos in health (Daschle et al.?)

How do you think people like me helped end segregation? How do you think people like me helped bring an end to Vietnam?

Simple.

We got off our collective asses and DID SOMETHING. We were just "kids" and we had no idea WHAT we were doing, but doing something sure seemed better than doing NOTHING!

You kids (compared to me!) have a new association run by one of your own who is as conservative as most of you and who probably closely represents your views. So why don't you all join and form a political action committee within the association and collect money and use it to get what you want?

Use the money on postage for letters, to put up a website, to sponsor studies, to send people to speak to the media and various biz groups, and, of course, to bribe the elected officials with campaign contributions.

Sitting in front of your computer and moaning to this newsgroup is not going to get you anything but continued frustration.

Decisions are made by those who show up. Why not take up a collection to send Rick B. and Dave F., Moonlight, Mr. Bill, Winter, and Healthguy... your most prolific right-wing conservative spokesmen... to Washington to testify? (John P. can drive there and back at almost no cost.)

You have your work cut out for you. Hey, guys who think as I do (I know you hate us) are sending newsletters similar to this one and writing blogs to hundreds of our clients and prospects.

The individual effects are small but somehow (I've never known why) the overall cumulative effects are huge. It is amazing how far an effectively written newsletter or blog will travel though the net... as well as how fast. And minds get changed. I didn't believe it either, but I've found it to be true.

If a group of (as you folks would say) pointy-headed liberals (radicals?) can get behind a black guy with a weird name and minimal experience... but a terrific message... against the most powerful opponent in his party, win the nomination and beat a true American military hero... it seems to me that you agents who wish to preserve your place in the healthcare financing mix can at least figure a way to stop what you see as fiscal Armageddon (and save your own butts as well!)

Of course you will have to get off of those butts to do it... and I suspect THAT is the real problem. Big hat... no cattle!

Or maybe you are simply not as serious as you seem to come across on the web board.

Like I say, decisions are made by those who show up.... not those who whine, moan, and complain.

Al
Preserve your memories

 

[Dave020]

Decisions are made by those who show up. Why not take up a collection to send Rick B. and Dave F., Moonlight, Mr. Bill, Winter, and Healthguy... your most prolific right-wing conservative spokesmen... to Washington to testify? (John P. can drive there and back at almost no cost.)

Since I was specifically mentioned:

I take exception to this. I have been a registered Democrat since 1988 and voted for Obama. Before that I voted for Kerry, Gore, Clinton 2x, and Dukakis.

Also, I take more serious exception to your position to those who actually had and have the guts and intenstinal fortitude to serve their country. Burning flags on campus takes no guts, putting on the uniform of the United States military and serving your country takes real guts.

Dave F
Technical Sergeant, United States Air Force
349th LRS
Travis AFB, CA
Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars
Member, The American Legion
Member, American GI Forum
Member, Berlin Island Association
Member, National Association of Health Underwriters
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As for your idea of national healthcare, here is the kind of treatment members of my unit have received from the federal government healthcare system:

Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility - washingtonpost.com

'It Is Just Not Walter Reed' - washingtonpost.com

Terms of Service

Military Health Care Still in Crisis Mode - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

I seriously doubt that most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, really want this kind of care.

Sadly, those who sacrifice the most are unable to obtain even the least.

And I won't even bother to post links to the thousands of horror stories about CHAMPUS and TRICARE.

Al, you have zero experience at federal run healthcare. Those of us who have worn the uniform and our dependents, have very vivid recollections of the quality of healthcare provided by our federal government. And it ain't pretty. Quite frankly and speaking form 17 years experience with federal universal US healthcare, it is f*cking ugly. And any veteran can tell you that. And there a millions of them. There would be millions more, but they died (in large part due to federal universal healthcare).

Have you ever spent any time at a VA hospital? I have, I am entitled to VA benefits. And God bless the fact I have choice to buy private insurance and go to real hospitals. I am also entitled to TRICARE. Like I said, thank God....

The last time I went to a VA hospital I saw things so horrible, so demeaning, so uncaring, that it makes the worst county clinic or senior home look like Shangri la. Things you would never, ever see even in an inner city hospital.

 

[Guest]

And I won't even bother to post links to the thousands of horror stories about CHAMPUS and TRICARE.

Al, you have zero experience at federal run healthcare. Those of us who have worn the uniform and our dependents, have very vivid recollections of the exact quality of healthcare provided by our federal government. And it ain't pretty. Quite frankly and speaking form 17 years experience with federal universal US healthcare, it is f*cking ugly. And any veteran can tell you that. And there a millions of them. There would be millions more, but the died (in large part due to federal universal healthcare).

I've worked around government health care most of my life. I was running Medi-Cal (actual MIO... MediCal Intermediary Operations) in San Francisco in 1973 with Blue Shield, before most of you here were born.

I've worked for the CA Dept. of Health Services and the CA Dept. of Managed Care.

Wrapping yourself in the flag works well around here, but in my opinion (which is really not allowed here) it took more guts and intestinal fortitude to go AWOL or to Canada or to prison for resisting the draft and Vietnam.

And those who have served in Iraq, that is their choice, not mine. They did what they thought was right, others who have not worn the uniform obviously did what THEY thought was right. The problem is that the right-wing, America love it or STFU only knows ONE right, only knows one opinion, only knows one type of citizenship... where you do what your country tells you to do...right or wrong. (I wonder how many of you young guys who here who are fit and healthy and talk a big macho game of kick-ass diplomacy, joined up and volunteered to go to Iraq?)

You also miss the entire argument for the kinds of change to healthcare that people are looking for. I see no great movement to nationalize the nation's hospitals or doctors. What those of us who are working diligently toward is to flatten the system and give equal access to all, not just the rich and/or healthy. Of course, it may mean that agents and carriers are not part of the mix and my answer to that is... so what?

And finally, you have to ask yourself that IF you believe that veteran care has been so terrible (something I don't think the vast majority of vets believe in) WHY is that? Who has been running the country the past 8 years? And who controls the funding for veteran hospitals? You are going to tell me that the Veterans Admin runs bad hospitals because they want to? Is it because they are not funded (again a Republican administration and Congress should answer?) Are you saying the military does not have enough money to run a health service?

I'll even accept your argument that government run hospitals are bad. But they don't have to be by definition any more than private hospitals have to be bad by definition (and some of them are horrible.) There are horror stories in both the private sector and the public sector... and there always will be.

If you wish to keep the status quo, that is your privilege. But standing up in this venue or anywhere else and saying "I wore the uniform" is not going to cut it... anymore than it did under the Bush administration. My message to all of you conservatives is that IF you want to change things or IF you want to keep things the same, just moaning about it here will do you no good.

Oh sure, all the right-wingers are going to "pile on" about their love for this country and their military experience and their hatred for everyone who didn't serve or wouldn't serve, but at the end of the day, no one of any importance is going to care about a bunch of guys sitting in a VFW or American Legion hall drinking beer and bitching about their health care.

You want to make a change or if you want to keep change from happening... stop your bitching and DO SOMETHING.

 

[Freddie]

Nice rant Al. Al you mentioned Vietnam? You mean JFK/LBJ's war? I see tax cheat and Democrat Charlie Rangel is talking about reinstituting the draft.

You still in CA? Do you know the state in bankrupt?

Hey Al - how come most the bankrupt states are blue liberal democrat states?

 

[Guest]

Nice rant Al. Al you mentioned Vietnam? You mean JFK/LBJ's war? I see tax cheat and Democrat Charlie Rangel is talking about reinstituting the draft.

We lost as many under Nixon/Ford as we did JFK/LBJ.

I'm in favor of re-instituting the draft. Nothing will get people into the streets faster to protest dual wars that we will eventually lose (as we did in Korea and Vietnam) than a draft of YOUR sons and daughters.

Just like the 60,000 dead in Vietnam, the 5,000 lost in Iraq and Afghanistan are for nothing. Military life if cheap to all you flag-waving, macho, let's-kick-some-ass Republicans.

You still in CA? Do you know the state in bankrupt?

Do you still live in the USA? Do you know the whole country is bankrupt.

Hey Al - how come most the bankrupt states are blue liberal democrat states?

How come the entire country that was run by a conservative Republican president and congress is bankrupt?

 

[CPACINS]

First of all Al, Bush was not a conservative republican. He was a moderate to liberal in his fiscal policies. He may be conservative in Foreign Affairs, but not monetarily. His liberal policies and the allowance of things to occur at Fannie/Freddie because the libs blocked it caused the issues that we have. If you wish to turn this into a very long discussion, I would be more than glad to go into the causes our economic problems and how they are based in liberal philosophies.

But you also say that the whole country is bankrupt, I live in Utah where we might be the most conservatively ran state in the nation and we are running a surplus still. How do you answer that? My state has also been voted the best and most efficiently ran state in the country. Conservative principles work if allowed to actually be implemented.

But here's my thing...if we can't really trust our gov't to be well ran, not corrupt or just plain dumb, why would we want more of it? Why would we trust it with something as important as health care? I noticed how you didn't answer any of Dave's issues that servicemen are having with the current gov't run healthcare. But of course you wouldn't answer that, would you. Truth hurts.
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I also know that you started this post with the intent to stir up the hornets nest. Are you satisfied?

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

How do you think people like me helped end segregation? How do you think people like me helped bring an end to Vietnam?

Probably invented the internet too...oh no wait...that was Al Gore.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

We ended Nam when we wanted to. Protests had nothing to do with the decision. Troops were deployed in '65 and we're pulled until '73.

And in fact, when Case-Church Amendment was introduced to prohibit any more military action Nixon fought it.

 

[bobson]

Since I was specifically mentioned:

I take exception to this. I have been a registered Democrat since 1988 and voted for Obama. Before that I voted for Kerry, Gore, Clinton 2x, and Dukakis.

Also, I take more serious exception to your position to those who actually had and have the guts and intenstinal fortitude to serve their country. Burning flags on campus takes no guts, putting on the uniform of the United States military and serving your country takes real guts.

Dave F
Technical Sergeant, United States Air Force
349th LRS
Travis AFB, CA
Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars
Member, The American Legion
Member, American GI Forum
Member, Berlin Island Association
Member, National Association of Health Underwriters
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As for your idea of national healthcare, here is the kind of treatment members of my unit have received from the federal government healthcare system:

Soldiers Face Neglect, Frustration At Army's Top Medical Facility - washingtonpost.com

'It Is Just Not Walter Reed' - washingtonpost.com

Terms of Service

Military Health Care Still in Crisis Mode - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

I seriously doubt that most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, really want this kind of care.

Sadly, those who sacrifice the most are unable to obtain even the least.

And I won't even bother to post links to the thousands of horror stories about CHAMPUS and TRICARE.

Al, you have zero experience at federal run healthcare. Those of us who have worn the uniform and our dependents, have very vivid recollections of the quality of healthcare provided by our federal government. And it ain't pretty. Quite frankly and speaking form 17 years experience with federal universal US healthcare, it is f*cking ugly. And any veteran can tell you that. And there a millions of them. There would be millions more, but they died (in large part due to federal universal healthcare).

Have you ever spent any time at a VA hospital? I have, I am entitled to VA benefits. And God bless the fact I have choice to buy private insurance and go to real hospitals. I am also entitled to TRICARE. Like I said, thank God....

The last time I went to a VA hospital I saw things so horrible, so demeaning, so uncaring, that it makes the worst county clinic or senior home look like Shangri la. Things you would never, ever see even in an inner city hospital.

PWNED!!!!

That had to hurt the person it was directed at...

 

[Ron Van D]

Wrapping yourself in the flag works well around here, but in my opinion (which is really not allowed here) it took more guts and intestinal fortitude to go AWOL or to Canada or to prison for resisting the draft and Vietnam.

.

Well, Al, you are wrong again. Running is cowardice. Going to prison for your beliefs is at least taking a stand.

As a country, we have over 50 trillion in unfunded liablilites already on the books. How is adding healthcare going to make our lives better?

I recommend taking the money that your are buying the boat with and paying for someone's healthcare. There are many needy people and that will be way more effective than giving it to the government and having them siphon off 60% to pay for the beauracracy.