403b Market & Life Insurance

[baggins415]

I work the 403b market in Florida. There are teachers who recognize that when they get older if they don't contribute to their 403b, they will be eating cat food. I have a couple of 18 y.o. girls contributing something to a 403b. I always tell them something is better than nothing and the whole time vs. money deal. Some teachers say they are broke yet they have iPhones, they are fat heffers and they just waste money. If a teacher looks at their budget and trims a little fat, there is always some money to contribute.

The girl who trained me started asking all her new clients and existing. I don't know how many policies she sold but she won a vacation and a nice TAG Heuer watch for her efforts. She sells term with living benefits mostly if not 100% of the time.

One agent in our office retired someone a few months back with 2 annuities and one life policy. His comp was close to $150,000.

Oh Baggins, I just read where you wouldn't work the Florida market because of the difficulty. I think these guys I know would tell you fine, they will take care of it. I personally don't care for the 403b market myself. I don't like all the politics involved with it and special treatment some reps and companies get. I guess I wouldn't care if I was doing 5 million a year in annuity premium like some of these guys in the office.

I really didn't mean to say i wouldn't work it. I wouldn't work it if what the previous commentators were saying were true across the board (of course this is probably not the case). They made it sound as if teachers were on welfare in Florida. Of course I also tried to shed light on the fact that there is a lot of GOLD in there....but you did a better job at doing that for me with your examples of the big hitters.

The key is becoming a big hitter. Any market 'sucks' if you suck - plain and simple. If you aren't willing to invest in yourself, learn from the best, read, study, practice - then you may as well sell italian ice and make up excuses why people won't buy (if it makes your feel better).

I had an agent who seemed to be unable to sell free water in the desert. So in one last ditch effort I sat down with him as 'the client'. I had to see how he was this BAD. And let me tell you he was awful. Besides his general salesmanship being terrible he demonstrated a clear lack of knowledge about product - and his prospects must have seen this. I gave him some tough love that day and put him to study. Once he applied himself and followed what I knew worked he made a complete 180 turn. It didn't take much to right the ship- but his rudder was definitely broken. I just think many agents learn to live with their 'limp' and make excuses..... Agents with excuses are a dime a dozen.

I've failed many times in my marketing attempts...but it's learning to go that extra mile where the few will usually reap the rewards. When I first started in the 403b market - my first 2 seminars were horrible. I was fumbling and dumbling my way out the door. I felt like quitting. But I KNEW there was a lot of money to be made so I tweaked and tweaked until I had a great presentation and could do it in my sleep. There's a bit of a learning curve but the money is very much THERE in the 403b market for sure.

As far as the Life insurance is concerned - good point about 'asking for it'. That alone will net you lots of sales. I have lead form at my seminars I hand out to get the attendees contact info. I have checkboxes on the lead form that they can check for areas they need 'help' in. It's amazing how many check off the Life Insurance box. And when they check that box I know I'm on my way to a 4 or even 5 figure sale (life plus annuity).

But aside from asking for the life insurance I think it's great to show the permanent insurance as a great alternative to their current annuity. When you illustrate an EIUL next to an EIA over 20+ years it's amazing how (if you are using the right company/product) the indexed life will outperform the indexed annuity! Higher Caps, Higher participation rates, and tax-free distributions during their lifetime, plus the insurance. It's hard to beat. The key is in how you present it. It's pretty typical for me to find the teacher already doing $500.00 a month and get them to redirect $250.00 of that into a life policy - it just takes showing them why it's beneficial. But of course you have to know why it's beneficial first. Most agents in this market do not know how to do this...but that doesn't mean they can't easily learn.

 

[Jim Jenkins]

i'd have to agree with russell. i believe the avg salary in FL is right about $40k.

how are you getting the typical teachers to invest $800/mo? Certainly not all teachers are married to successful business owners or wealthy people.

naturally, in your state, salaries are higher though the cost of living is as well so it may be comparable.

is this quantity over quality to be successful?

Could you please provide data that states they make less then 50k in salary a year.

 

[Franz Kafka]

When you illustrate an EIUL next to an EIA over 20+ years it's amazing how (if you are using the right company/product) the indexed life will outperform the indexed annuity! Higher Caps, Higher participation rates, and tax-free distributions during their lifetime, plus the insurance. It's hard to beat. The key is in how you present it.

LAWSUITS are written all over this blatant lie.

 

[baggins415]

LAWSUITS are written all over this blatant lie.

Wrong. It's obvious you don't like EIUL's or EIA's from various statements you've made in this forum. I have examples of clients getting as high as 25% credited last year with NO downside risk. What product can do that? Of course you can't guarantee that an EIUL will outperform a fixed/indexed annuity....but this is the nature of anything with moving interest rates. I never suggested telling a client it's guaranteed But the upside potential while even using CONSERVATIVE illustrations will blow fixed annuities out of the damn water. Many clients will trade off very little interest for more upside potential. I have a life product that credits 140% (participation) with generous caps. You probably know nothing about products like this, and throw accusations in your ignorance and stale dated ways, clinging to products you are comfortable with - afraid of anything new. Try to evolve my friend.

Of course it must be hard for you when you don't keep with the times. Look at investing (for example). Do people with serious money put their money into 'mutual funds'? No. They put them in hedge funds (and various other investments.) Hedge funds were part of a positive evolution to investing. They are not guaranteed, but no investment is. My analogy here is that many things evolve, and you are like an investment salesman with only a mutual fund in your bag. I would imagine you calling hedge funds 'risky lies, scams' and their representatives 'Liars'....just because you are stuck ancient times and can't get out of your own way.

Please, I beg you for the sake of the newer people in here, don't criticize what you don't understand. I also suggest you stop drinking the whole life cool aide your company is feeding you and get into the 21st century. It's not a bad place to be. Products have evolved......and for the better! Just open your eyes and look at the math. If you can't do it yourself there's plenty of software out there to do it for you.

I also find it extremely disturbing that you seem to have called many people in this forum 'Liars' with little or no factual information to back up your claims. Can someone please strip this CLOWN of his "Guru" title?

 

[Norwayguy]

Baggins415....Are you payroll deducting these life premiums or just efting monthly? My mind is always open to new ideas.

 

[baggins415]

Baggins415....Are you payroll deducting these life premiums or just efting monthly? My mind is always open to new ideas.

On 403b annuities - that's done pre-tax through the individual district or TPA using a simple form supplied by the school district. Life insurance products I collect a check - or a voided check (depending on if they want/need conditional coverage) and just do the EFT/Bank draft for subsequent premiums. Generally, I do like to collect the first months premium in a hard check- I think it holds their feet to the committment more too.

 

[Norwayguy]

On 403b annuities - that's done pre-tax through the individual district or TPA using a simple form supplied by the school district. Life insurance products I collect a check - or a voided check (depending on if they want/need conditional coverage) and just do the EFT/Bank draft for subsequent premiums. Generally, I do like to collect the first months premium in a hard check- I think it holds their feet to the committment more too.

Yes I'm very familiar with 403(b) annuities....And from your answer I now know your selling them the life outside of the 403(b)...You used to be able to sell a Life Policy inside of the 403(b) as long as the Death Benefit was incidental and I never understood creating a taxable death benefit.

 

[baggins415]

Yes, I've noticed some districts will take certain life and cancer plans on payroll deduct. Conseco is one of these. Personally I think these policies are junk and don't sell them but have seen some agents clean up with them. Much like the Aflac business model just with school employees.

 

[STIBROKER]

Yes, I've noticed some districts will take certain life and cancer plans on payroll deduct. Conseco is one of these.

A federal court judge in California has ruled against Conseco Life Insurance Co. in a class action, barring it from hitting some 50,000 policyholders with sky-high rate increases on life insurance policies.
The ruling, delivered Wednesday in U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, centers on a block of Valulife and Valuterm universal life insurance policies that were sold in the late 1980s and into the 1990s. The decision could have serious repercussions for other carriers considering raising premiums on older policies, according to the plaintiffs’ attorney.
The origin of the case dates back to 2002, according to the ruling. That’s when the Indiana Department of Insurance raised concerns about the carrier’s insolvency and asset adequacy. That year, Conseco had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after problems arose from its earlier acquisition of Green Tree Financial Corp., a mobile home financer.
To avoid having to post reserves, the insurer searched for a way to find some $173 million of reduced future liabilities, according to the decision.
Conseco picked out two blocks of UL policies with lower than expected lapse rates and computed a pricing formula that would cut future losses from those UL blocks, according to court documents.
This formula called for a sharp increase in the cost of insurance when the policies reached their 21st year of being in force — which would have been 2010 or 2011 for the customers who’ve had their policies the longest, according to the ruling.
The rate hike would have tripled the cost of insurance for those customers, causing the policies to run out of cash value, according to the plaintiffs’ attorney, Andrew S. Friedman of Bonnett Fairbourn Friedman & Balint PC.
Conseco had told the court last year that it would not put the rate hike in place. Judge A. Howard Matz, however, found that even the formulation of the proposed increases violated the terms of the policies. The judge noted that the policies require the insurer to determine its cost of insurance rates based on future mortality experience — which does not include lapse and interest factors.
Mr. Friedman said that the court’s decision may dissuade other carriers from trying to raise premiums on older UL policies, many of which were sold in the 1980s. He did note that he has not directly heard of any other carrier attempting to raise premiums the way Conseco did. But he added that insurers have been raising rates of late on UL policies. Those increases, he said, “have been devastating to older policyholders.”
Conseco Life expects to fight the decision.
“We were disappointed in the ruling and we intend to appeal,” said Tony Zehnder, a spokesman for CNO Financial Group, Conseco Life’s parent.
But Mr. Friedman applauded the decision. “The policies were designed to be profitable in the early years and unprofitable later. These rate increases wouldn’t have hit until year 21. These are people who have paid dutifully for 20 years and have the rug pulled out from under them.”



Texas Life Insurance

 

[baggins415]

Well, I did say they were junk...and I wasn't even aware of this problem. Can you say "instincts"?