UncappedIULforYou
Expert
- 80
I posted an introduction on a networking group.
Billybob commented asking bout a "guaranteed minimum gain on 25k"
Me
"Can guarantee you $5,270.37 interest on that money over 5 years. Backed not by FDIC but by FLAHIGA Florida Life and Health Insurance Guarantee Association. If the insurer mishandles its money and goes bankrupt the state will step in and pay what the company owes you up to $300,000, including any interest accumulated. These also have special protections in the state of Florida including judgement proof, creditor proof, probate proof, and tax deferred. So you will not pay taxes on your gains as they accumulate, only when they are distributed. If someone slips and falls in your house they can sue, but they can't touch your annuity. If you owe someone because of a line of credit, they can't touch it either."
Jimmy john's response to my comment
"
No. You guarentee the growth of the benefit base, not the contract or surrender value.
Also, by using FLSHIGA in your sales pitch, you are in violation of the law, specifically 631.65 which reads, "Prohibited advertisement or solicitation.—No person shall make, publish, disseminate, circulate, or place before the public, or cause, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in a newspaper, magazine, or other publication, or in the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter, or poster, or over any radio station or television station, or in any other way, any advertisement, announcement, or statement which uses the existence of the insurance guaranty association for the purpose of sales, solicitation, or inducement to purchase any form of insurance covered under this part. However, this section does not prohibit a duly licensed insurance agent from explaining the existence or function of the insurance guaranty association to policyholders, prospects, or applicants for coverage."
My response to him
"If you refer to my post, which has been referred to already as a sales script there is no mention of FLAHIGA within it."
"Furthermore as evidenced by my response to a question, to which you are referring, my explanation of the existence of FLAHIGA is part and parcel in explaining the merits of an annuity. You'll notice that my entire comment is about protections specific to Florida, not specifically, or disproportionately FLAHIGA."
"Also when speaking about guaranteed income riders on annuities and one fields a question from someone nowhere near 50. Would you continue to talk about a product they cannot buy? I wouldn't. You're correct. I changed the product to something that does not require a minimum age of 50 to purchase."
His response to me
" I don't know Jonah Faulkner, I only have a couple of decades of experience in this field and an absolutely spotless compliance record. I guess the benefit of being independent is you can disregard the rules.
I'm this case, your explanation of the product used FLAHIGA as a benefit of the contract, unsolicited by Kurt. Kurt asked for the guaranteed investment gain on a 25,000 investment. You did provide a number, but was that the GMIR, or was that the gain on benefit base?
Also, I have the knowledge that fixed index annuities are garbage. They only benefit the insurance company and the person who sells them. I have had had too many clients come into my office after being told all of these wonderful things about these trash products. I get to tell them that the jerk that sold them this garbage made sure they cannot retire for another 10 years.
If you want, we can really get into it. What are the fees.. you know, the real fees, like the spread, caps, and participation rate? How much is the cost of the GLWB? Surrender period, surrender charges, MVA?"
My response to him
"My response was to the word GUARANTEE, as you are well aware fixed indexed annuities provide little in the way of guarantees, UNLESS you add a guaranteed income rider. Based on Kurt's apparent age this would not be feasible. I therefore looked up the highest performing Multi Year Guarantee Annuity and calculated its interest. I then went on to explain its similarities and differences to other comparable investments. To say something with no risk of loss is garbage, I'm truly at a loss for words. Edit: the MYGA has only surrender charges, as does every other annuity."
"Based on ... .... saying "guaranteed minimum gain" I knew what he was asking about wasn't what I had originally posted about. A fixed indexed annuity with a guaranteed lifetime withdrawal benefit is obviously not in his best interest, which is immediately why I detoured."
His response
"There are two numbers, the imaginary benefit base and the 'take my money and go away' number.
They are garbage. Absolute garbage. They lose to inflation, they are inflexible, overly complex piles of shit. When I sit down and explain how these things actually work to the unfortunate people that bought them, they usually respond, Why would anyone buy them?
I usually think, What kind of degenerate sells them?
Do the math, when your victims are in their 80s and don't have the income to make ends meet because as soon as they turn that income rider on, they are screwed. The longer they live, the worse it is. If you have two clients in front of you that are 65, 33% of the time one will reach 95.
The math doesn't lie. FIA always fails that test."
My response
"I understand your vitriol to those who prey on others. If you lump me in with that crowd I apologize that my language led you to believe that I was one of them. That was literally the opposite of my intent. If any of my clients are in unsuitable products it's because I haven't yet replaced it."
I don't think I broke the law he's referencing. Anyone else care to weigh in?
631.65 Prohibited advertisement or solicitation.—No person shall make, publish, disseminate, circulate, or place before the public, or cause, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in a newspaper, magazine, or other publication, or in the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter, or poster, or over any radio station or television station, or in any other way, any advertisement, announcement, or statement which uses the existence of the insurance guaranty association for the purpose of sales, solicitation, or inducement to purchase any form of insurance covered under this part. However, this section does not prohibit a duly licensed insurance agent from explaining the existence or function of the insurance guaranty association to policyholders, prospects, or applicants for coverage.
History.—s. 16, ch. 70-20; s. 809(1st), ch. 82-243; ss. 187, 188, ch. 91-108; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 14, ch. 2009-87.
Billybob commented asking bout a "guaranteed minimum gain on 25k"
Me
"Can guarantee you $5,270.37 interest on that money over 5 years. Backed not by FDIC but by FLAHIGA Florida Life and Health Insurance Guarantee Association. If the insurer mishandles its money and goes bankrupt the state will step in and pay what the company owes you up to $300,000, including any interest accumulated. These also have special protections in the state of Florida including judgement proof, creditor proof, probate proof, and tax deferred. So you will not pay taxes on your gains as they accumulate, only when they are distributed. If someone slips and falls in your house they can sue, but they can't touch your annuity. If you owe someone because of a line of credit, they can't touch it either."
Jimmy john's response to my comment
"
No. You guarentee the growth of the benefit base, not the contract or surrender value.
Also, by using FLSHIGA in your sales pitch, you are in violation of the law, specifically 631.65 which reads, "Prohibited advertisement or solicitation.—No person shall make, publish, disseminate, circulate, or place before the public, or cause, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in a newspaper, magazine, or other publication, or in the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter, or poster, or over any radio station or television station, or in any other way, any advertisement, announcement, or statement which uses the existence of the insurance guaranty association for the purpose of sales, solicitation, or inducement to purchase any form of insurance covered under this part. However, this section does not prohibit a duly licensed insurance agent from explaining the existence or function of the insurance guaranty association to policyholders, prospects, or applicants for coverage."
My response to him
"If you refer to my post, which has been referred to already as a sales script there is no mention of FLAHIGA within it."
"Furthermore as evidenced by my response to a question, to which you are referring, my explanation of the existence of FLAHIGA is part and parcel in explaining the merits of an annuity. You'll notice that my entire comment is about protections specific to Florida, not specifically, or disproportionately FLAHIGA."
"Also when speaking about guaranteed income riders on annuities and one fields a question from someone nowhere near 50. Would you continue to talk about a product they cannot buy? I wouldn't. You're correct. I changed the product to something that does not require a minimum age of 50 to purchase."
His response to me
" I don't know Jonah Faulkner, I only have a couple of decades of experience in this field and an absolutely spotless compliance record. I guess the benefit of being independent is you can disregard the rules.
I'm this case, your explanation of the product used FLAHIGA as a benefit of the contract, unsolicited by Kurt. Kurt asked for the guaranteed investment gain on a 25,000 investment. You did provide a number, but was that the GMIR, or was that the gain on benefit base?
Also, I have the knowledge that fixed index annuities are garbage. They only benefit the insurance company and the person who sells them. I have had had too many clients come into my office after being told all of these wonderful things about these trash products. I get to tell them that the jerk that sold them this garbage made sure they cannot retire for another 10 years.
If you want, we can really get into it. What are the fees.. you know, the real fees, like the spread, caps, and participation rate? How much is the cost of the GLWB? Surrender period, surrender charges, MVA?"
My response to him
"My response was to the word GUARANTEE, as you are well aware fixed indexed annuities provide little in the way of guarantees, UNLESS you add a guaranteed income rider. Based on Kurt's apparent age this would not be feasible. I therefore looked up the highest performing Multi Year Guarantee Annuity and calculated its interest. I then went on to explain its similarities and differences to other comparable investments. To say something with no risk of loss is garbage, I'm truly at a loss for words. Edit: the MYGA has only surrender charges, as does every other annuity."
"Based on ... .... saying "guaranteed minimum gain" I knew what he was asking about wasn't what I had originally posted about. A fixed indexed annuity with a guaranteed lifetime withdrawal benefit is obviously not in his best interest, which is immediately why I detoured."
His response
"There are two numbers, the imaginary benefit base and the 'take my money and go away' number.
They are garbage. Absolute garbage. They lose to inflation, they are inflexible, overly complex piles of shit. When I sit down and explain how these things actually work to the unfortunate people that bought them, they usually respond, Why would anyone buy them?
I usually think, What kind of degenerate sells them?
Do the math, when your victims are in their 80s and don't have the income to make ends meet because as soon as they turn that income rider on, they are screwed. The longer they live, the worse it is. If you have two clients in front of you that are 65, 33% of the time one will reach 95.
The math doesn't lie. FIA always fails that test."
My response
"I understand your vitriol to those who prey on others. If you lump me in with that crowd I apologize that my language led you to believe that I was one of them. That was literally the opposite of my intent. If any of my clients are in unsuitable products it's because I haven't yet replaced it."
I don't think I broke the law he's referencing. Anyone else care to weigh in?
631.65 Prohibited advertisement or solicitation.—No person shall make, publish, disseminate, circulate, or place before the public, or cause, directly or indirectly, to be made, published, disseminated, circulated, or placed before the public, in a newspaper, magazine, or other publication, or in the form of a notice, circular, pamphlet, letter, or poster, or over any radio station or television station, or in any other way, any advertisement, announcement, or statement which uses the existence of the insurance guaranty association for the purpose of sales, solicitation, or inducement to purchase any form of insurance covered under this part. However, this section does not prohibit a duly licensed insurance agent from explaining the existence or function of the insurance guaranty association to policyholders, prospects, or applicants for coverage.
History.—s. 16, ch. 70-20; s. 809(1st), ch. 82-243; ss. 187, 188, ch. 91-108; s. 4, ch. 91-429; s. 14, ch. 2009-87.
