Any Insights on John Hancock's "Performance LTC" Policies?

By what? Based on what the person selling MassMutual tells me ("We probably won't raise rates") or what the person selling JH tells me ("We probably won't raise rates by much")?

I know MM hasn't raised rates on their policyholders, but they've also been selling LTC for only 15 years, if I understand correctly. Given that most of those policies were probably sold to people 50-65 years old, those folks are now 70-85. In other words, just starting to cash in those policies. "Past performance is no guarantee of future returns," as they say. Is anyone here ready to guarantee they won't have to jack up rates on policyholders over the next 25 years?

Maybe JH's Performance LTC is "smoke & mirrors," but that's why I'm here: to find out how is it smoke and mirrors?

Can we not have a discussion on the merits/risks of the two programs rather than just saying "Buy this" or "Buy that" or "this is a worthless thread"?

No reason to have a discussion on this topic.
It is just clear cut which is why everyone just gave you your answer sheet. We are sorry that you can't figure out the obvious answer.

Who is a better hockey player: Mario Lemieux or Pascal Dupuis? Mario Lemieux
Is the sky blue or green? Blue
Which is the preferable policy? Mass Mutual Signature Care or John Hancock Performance LTC? Mass Mutual.

First off Mass Mutual is the better contract. JH requires home care to be provided by and through home care agencies; MM allows home care to be provided by caregivers independent of agencies. Secondly, John Hancock charges women a 50% surcharge; Mass Mutual still has unisex pricing so if there is a female applicant involved it is inevitable the price of Mass Mutual is much better however John Hancock wants to now package its policy with graded premiums. Mass Mutual has never once requested a rate increase in LTC. And yes, past performance is an indicator of future success especially when you factor in how difficult an underwriter Mass Mutual is. MM does not underwrite a lot of risks that other companies have underwritten. MM has not issued coverage to large employer groups on a simplified basis as other underwriters have done. MM is a Preferred risk underwriter. JH has requested rate increases more often than my kids ask me for ice cream. Mass Mutual has never requested one.

Mass Mutual is a level premium. JH is an increasing premium policy. JH had level premium designs and was never going to write any business so its marketing department introduced a policy with increasing premiums. Agents on this forum have told you it is smoke and mirrors. Teaser rate, etc. No one here has anything to gain by telling you like it is. You will pay thousands and thousands more premium over time with JH.

Why you met with 2 different captive agents is beyond me? But thankfully you met with a captive Mass Mutual agent (and not Northwestern Mutual) The Mass Mutual policy is the best policy you can buy today. (A good back-up policy might be Mutual of Omaha).

Good luck to you.
(By the way, never buy Shared rider with Mass. Buy individual 6 year benefit periods each. Always include dual waiver of premium option)

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If this OP would simply work with an independent long term care professional that offers just about all policies, he could get an unbiased opinion of what is best with a full explanation of why it is. Unless the OP works exclusively with an agent who is strictly a long term care professional and spends all his time keeping up with all the companies and policies as they change, he can't get the information he needs in an unbiased manner.

Get ONE of these guys on this forum to work with you exclusively. Talk to Scott or Jack or Arthur, or a couple more, then pick one and get it done.

I think you probably should consider Mutual of Omaha.

Well, Bill, here is the other problem for consumers. WAY too many yoyos tell consumers "I'm independent, I'm a specialist." Yet they really are only writing a few companies: usual suspects like Genworth, John Hancock, MedAmerica, and Mutual of Omaha.

3 days ago I got a call from a consumer who had spoken with an agent. The agent stated he was independent and "could write any policy." Well, the agent was steering him to Mutual of Omaha which was $100 less expensive annually than Mass Mutual. When the client asked about rate increases the agent simply implied all companies have raised rates. He never mentioned that Mass Mutual has never raised rates. Why not? The agent does not have a Mass Mutual contract. Well, the client dug deeper and now he knows the facts after doing more research and finding my site. For this client he would gladly pay $100 more per year to be with a company like a Mass Mutual. But the first agent he spoke with kept him in the dark. So, it is hard Bill for a consumer to find a really independent adviser who will properly advise first without any worry about whether business is ultimately obtained.
 
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By what? Based on what the person selling MassMutual tells me ("We probably won't raise rates") or what the person selling JH tells me ("We probably won't raise rates by much")?

I know MM hasn't raised rates on their policyholders, but they've also been selling LTC for only 15 years, if I understand correctly. Given that most of those policies were probably sold to people 50-65 years old, those folks are now 70-85. In other words, just starting to cash in those policies. "Past performance is no guarantee of future returns," as they say. Is anyone here ready to guarantee they won't have to jack up rates on policyholders over the next 25 years?

Maybe JH's Performance LTC is "smoke & mirrors," but that's why I'm here: to find out how is it smoke and mirrors?

Can we not have a discussion on the merits/risks of the two programs rather than just saying "Buy this" or "Buy that" or "this is a worthless thread"?


John Hancock has had some of the highest and most frequent rate increases in the industry. Mass Mutual has not.

Mass has much better financial ratings than Hancock does. There are only 2 LTCI carriers with better financials than Mass, and they are only minutely better and they both have had just slight rate increases.

Past performance is most definitely an indicator of future performance. It is not a guarantee. But it is the best indicator there is.
Mass getting in after Hancock is actually a good thing. Because they were able to look at companies like Hancock, Genworth, Conseco, etc. who mispriced policies and learn from their mistakes. And they have blocks of business that are hitting claims already.

If you want to learn about the ins and outs of Hancocks new policy, and why we consider it smoke and mirrors, then there is a thread on this LTCI section about it already. If you honestly care about the info you can search it out. It should be within the first 2 or 3 pages of this LTCI section of the site. No reason to repeat a 3 page long thread.

I am an independent agent who is not tied to any one carrier. I will not sell Hancock. I sell Mass, Mutual of Omaha, & MedAmerica. I am not against Transamerica, but they are never competitive in my state. Mass is what I recommend 90% of the time, unless the client wants a 10 or 20 pay policy, then I use MedAmerica.

At the end of the day I dont really care who you go with... other than the fact that when consumers choose inferior policies it affects my industry on a long term basis by having pissed consumers down the road. But no one who has given you advice is trying to profit off of you... you have probably about 70-90 years worth of combined insurance experience telling you to go with Mass Mutual.
 
There are only 2 LTCI carriers with better financials than Mass, and they are only minutely better and they both have had just slight rate increases.

Tyler, I assume NY Life is one underwriter you are referring to. NY Life requested one rate increase of 40% in 2013. Who is the second underwriter? Northwestern Mutual like Mass Mutual has never requesed rate increases. Anyone else with a 99 or 100 Comdex that I am missing?
 
To the OP, shouldn't you lay these choices out side by side to compare? Along maybe with another one or two?

Most independents should be able to show you a benefits comparison to compare each companies features side by side.

If not, maybe look for an agent who can.

With LTC I would NOT make any claim that the cost will remain stable over time. They all started out that way and the ones that have been selling the product the longest, have increased premiums. A few years ago you could sell rate guarantees for as long as a decade (extra premium), can't offer it now as I don't think anybody offers it.

The one thing with LTC over time is the cost will change. Not a single agent here has a crystal ball that we can honestly state we know how much. So look at the features you want and the cost. Look for options that allow you to make adjustments over time to keep the premium affordable if you have an increase.

The "if" should be a "when" if we're being honest here.

Plan for change and find a policy that allows you to change over time.

Best of luck.
 
Tyler, I assume NY Life is one underwriter you are referring to. NY Life requested one rate increase of 40% in 2013. Who is the second underwriter? Northwestern Mutual like Mass Mutual has never requesed rate increases. Anyone else with a 99 or 100 Comdex that I am missing?

I thought NWM had one rate increase as well??

Guess I was mistaken. Although, the times I have seen NWMs rates, it would take 2 rate increases from Mass to be at NWMs level... lol.

Thank you for the clarification.

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To the OP, shouldn't you lay these choices out side by side to compare? Along maybe with another one or two?

Most independents should be able to show you a benefits comparison to compare each companies features side by side.

Yep. Underwriting issues aside; I almost always initially show quotes side by side with the top 3 or 4. Then we narrow it down to 2, then we drill down on UW and pivot if need be.
 
John Hancock has had some of the highest and most frequent rate increases in the industry. Mass Mutual has not. Mass has much better financial ratings than Hancock does. There are only 2 LTCI carriers with better financials than Mass, and they are only minutely better and they both have had just slight rate increases. Past performance is most definitely an indicator of future performance. It is not a guarantee. But it is the best indicator there is. Mass getting in after Hancock is actually a good thing. Because they were able to look at companies like Hancock, Genworth, Conseco, etc. who mispriced policies and learn from their mistakes. And they have blocks of business that are hitting claims already. If you want to learn about the ins and outs of Hancocks new policy, and why we consider it smoke and mirrors, then there is a thread on this LTCI section about it already. If you honestly care about the info you can search it out. It should be within the first 2 or 3 pages of this LTCI section of the site. No reason to repeat a 3 page long thread. I am an independent agent who is not tied to any one carrier. I will not sell Hancock. I sell Mass, Mutual of Omaha, & MedAmerica. I am not against Transamerica, but they are never competitive in my state. Mass is what I recommend 90% of the time, unless the client wants a 10 or 20 pay policy, then I use MedAmerica. At the end of the day I dont really care who you go with... other than the fact that when consumers choose inferior policies it affects my industry on a long term basis by having pissed consumers down the road. But no one who has given you advice is trying to profit off of you... you have probably about 70-90 years worth of combined insurance experience telling you to go with Mass Mutual.

Wish states being stated was the norm here. Prices vary so much from state to state in the downstate NY tri state area. Mass Mutual is very expensive in NY for instance.
 
Wish states being stated was the norm here. Prices vary so much from state to state in the downstate NY tri state area. Mass Mutual is very expensive in NY for instance.

Well, you can see from the state flag underneath my username that I am in SC... or just from the SC in my username... so a good guess is that I am at least talking about rates in SC... lol.

Seriously though, LTCI rates vary from state to state more than any other product. NY varies more than any other state for all products. It is a safe bet that NY will be different for most anything said on here when it comes to rates or product availability.


Can you give us an example of a Mass policy compared to a MoO or other carrier with NY rates? How much more expensive are they?
 
Can you give us an example of a Mass policy compared to a MoO or other carrier with NY rates? How much more expensive are they?

Mass Mutual is competitive in New York. Competitive everywhere.

See attached. Genworth still inexpensive though.

60 year old married couple: $200.00 day, 5 year benefit periods, 3% compound inflation, 90 day waiting period, best available health.

Genworth $3913
MedAmerica $5353
Mass Mutual $5838
Mutual of Omaha $6065
NY Life $6347
John Hancock $6942 (CPI, not 3%)
Northwestern $9290 (6 years each)
 

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