Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements? I need help!

[Guest]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

Plan D has At Home Recovery, a $1,500 per benefit if they ever need it. Plan F does not.

When I meet with people who have an F and think they want another one I point out that the only reason the other agent sold them a Plan F is because it costs more. I tell them that all agents work on straight commission and therefore they make more money. That usually gets them ready to reach for a pen.

This is all assuming that their doctors accept assignment and in Missouri they virtually all do. There are some states that I have been told that a Plan F is less than a Plan D. Ain't so here.

To the best of my knowledge, in California Supp Plans D, G, I, and J cover at-home help for up to eight weeks after you no longer need skilled care. However, as I understand the benefit, they will not pay more than $40 per visit, seven visits a week or $1,600 each year.

Let us assume I'm correct here (Rick and others can confirm as he/they know this market far better than I do.)

The key is $40 a visit. How long will someone stay and work at your house for $40 per day? Maybe all day in rural MO. It's more like 3 hours where I live. I don't see this as a huge benefit that you get with D... as opposed to the shortcomings of the plan... the stuff it does not cover.

D does not pay the $135 a year Part B deduct.

In my zip, for a 66 year old a D is $105 and an F is $119/mo. That's a $14/mo or 168/yr difference.

As you said, D does not pay any doctor excess charges.

Add in the $135 Part B deduction (because most folks will use enough Part B services) that leaves a net cost $33 difference between D and F. So for $33 you insure against the risk of having to pay the 15% Part B excess charge.

That's a risk I would not take.... not for a mere $33 a year! What if you want to see a specialist who does not take assignment? What if you are in a hospital and treated by a doctor who does not take assignment (perhaps the ER doc.) You could be talking a lot more than $33!

Am I willing to trade a potential $1600 benefit for home care with D for a possible HUGE out-of-pocket expense for Part B excess... for $33? No, I would not.

I suppose that for people who are almost destitute and where the $168 will mean they have to eat cat food twice a day, I guess a D is what they should take. But for anyone else I'd sell the F.


The Jackass

 

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

You missed the biggest point Jackass. Plan F usually gets the biggest increases and is also where the GI business goes too. G is usually 3-4 dollars more than a D so if you are worried (we all know that you think the sky is falling) that you are going to have excess charges that would be a better plan than F.

 

[Guest]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

Plan F usually gets the biggest increases and is also where the GI business goes too.

In 95628 (Sacramento, CA) out of Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Aetna, and Health Net, (the major players here) only Shield has a D. All have an F. Only HN has a G.

Here are the rates for a 74 year old

                            D            F             G
Aetna                    -           $150           -
Cross                    -            $170          -
Shield                  $144       $163          -
Health Net             -            $140         $123

You would write a $144 D over a $140 F? Or would you write the G?

If, as you say the F plans get the biggest increases, I would have expected there to be a larger disparity between the D and F. It's $19 a month.

As for the G, out here it pays 80% of excess charges, meaning the client will have an out-of-pocket of 4% of the billed charges. Say the surgeon charges $5,000. Write a check for $200 and the gas passer is $2000. Write a check for $280.

I still think F is the way to go, but I'm open to discussion on it. It's not carved in stone with me, but when I do the math I just don't see where D or G is a all-around, overall better value than the F.

Show me some numbers.


The Jackass.

 

[Frank Stastny]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

I feel certain that those of you who can read and understand what you read noticed that my reference was for the state of MISSOURI. I am equally certain that you also noticed that I stated that in other states Plan F may be a better deal.

I sell the vast majority of my Supplements in Missouri and a few in Colorado. Selling in Colorado is dramatically different than in MISSOURI. But, my point of reference was and still is MISSOURI.

For those not very well educated in Medicare Supplements, plans A through J provide the same coverage, by law, regardless of the state you reside in. I did not address plans I or J because they are the worst investment of one's premium dollar, at least in MISSOURI.

Again for the uneducated, Medicare Supplements vary dramatically from state to state as do what insurance companies charge for their Medicare Supplements. Only a fool is going to try argue that a particular Plan or company is better for all states.

If Plan F appears the be the best value in your state then gear your marketing accordingly and sell it. Most agents living in other states really don't care. If they also sell in the state you reside in then they already know that information.

A real insurance professional will take the knowledge gained here and tailor it to their individual situation. Not try to start an argument to feed their withering ego.

 

[Guest]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

A real insurance professional will take the knowledge gained here and tailor it to their individual situation. Not try to start an argument to feed their withering ego.

Oh Jeez Louise Frank. No one here, especially I, was being critical of you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I think some of us (I for one) get real tired of you always claiming that someone is being critical of you just because they disagree with you.

This was about Medicare supplements, not about you... until you made it about YOU.

I'm sorry that you are so sensitive. Perhaps this is not a good forum for you because not everyone is going to agree with you all the time. But that does not mean it is personal or that there is any ego involved, or that it is anything more than a difference of opinion.

Why do you try to make every post where someone takes issue with what you wrote as being some kind of personal attack?

I'm sorry you took offense, even though none was intended. What I'm most sorry about is having to always apologize to you whenever I disagree with you. But I do again... and I'm sure WILL do again.


Sigh.

Al

 

[GreenSky]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

Just for fun, I rated Plan D with Lincoln Heritage in Sacramento (actually zips 95XXX) for a 74 year old NS Female. It's $116.

Interestingly, Plan G with United World (this is a Mutual of Omaha company for the less informed) would be $125 vs. Health Net 123.

So it costs $17 per month with Health Net or $204 per year for the insurance carrier to pay the $135 deductible. Or save an additional $84 with Lincoln Heritage Plan D for a NET savings of $153 after paying the deductible herself.

I think either option, D or G is FAR better than Plan F. But what do I know. I only specialize in this crap and have taken the time to learn what I do.

Most agents don't bother understanding supplements because they only do one if they must, and then like lemmings they recommend Plan F. Oh yeah, they get more commission this way also.

Also, as far as excess charges...The reality is 97%+ of docs accept assignment. It's virtually impossible for a bill for a surgeon to be more than $2,000 after Medicare knocks it down. Let's use $4,000 for all the doctors in the operating room and none of them accept assignment (odds of this are virtually impossible). That means that the excess charges would be about $370. I'd rather pay the $370 if my doc is one of the 3% that doesn't accept assignment that have to pay and extra $153 each and every year.

By the way, I've been told that in some neighborhoods value in an insurance policy does not matter. However, it apparently matters to my clients all over California.

Agents need to do the math and explain things to their clients. I too write a bunch of Plan Fs but only after I explain the coverages and differences between the plans. Some people are more comfortable giving the insurance company more money than is required and I still gladly take the application. But at least I do my job as a professional by explaining their options.

Rick

 

[Guest]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

I think either option, D or G is FAR better than Plan F. But what do I know. I only specialize in this crap and have taken the time to learn what I do. .... I too write a bunch of Plan Fs ...

If an agent believes that D or G is FAR better than F, why would they sell ANY Fs? To my way of thinking (i.e. in my opinion) a professional agent would not let his clients do something not in their best interests.

There are many, many, MANY major med plans I won't sell because I don't like the plan and would not have it myself. Same with Kaiser. I won't sell it because I don't like their model. If a client wants KP I tell them to get it on their own direct with KP or I give them the name of another agent who will write it (no split... what goes around comes around.)

Everyone runs their practice differently. There is no one right answer on what is "the best." I'm sure each agent feels that their method is fine.... and for them it is. Most likely (as in this case) it does not work for me at all, so I employ a different paradigm in how I market and sell health coverage. I won't convince anyone that my methodology and philosophy is "the one true path" and I don't try. I don't know of any here who will convince me of theirs, but some seem to "try" every chance they get.

No matter what, the dialectic is interesting. We all learn something from each other even if we often have divergent viewpoints and practices.

Al

 

[theinuranceguy]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

I disagree with about 100% of you on this subject, so please no one take this personally. But as independent agents we are to give our clients a choice. Some may push Medicare Sups more than Medicare Advantages, but the truth of the matter is that if a Prospect was dead set on a particular plan and only wanted that, you’d sell them that plan.
I guess my only concern is that, I believe a Med Supp (Although the “Best” insurance) is not always the best option. Allow me to explain:

A healthy 65 year old that goes to the Dr. twice a year for a regular check up, would be throwing away money in a Med Sup (again, my opinion). It is more cost effective to Pick up a Zero Premium Medicare Advantage with an Indemnity plan that will cover outpatient surgeries and hospital stays. This would cost them roughly $15 per month. So now this person instead of paying over a $1,000 in unneeded premium per year, they spend $180 per year, rates never go up, and a small copay at the Dr. If for some reason they went into the Hospital, or had to have some kind of outpatient surgery that needed done. They would have ZERO out of pocket.

Another example would be if someone is 65 but very unhealthy. Regularly going to the Dr and being admitted to the hospital. Well then obviously, a supplement would make the most sense for this person.

I guess my point is this, although a Medicare Supplement is hands down the best insurance available to seniors, its not necessarily the wisest choice. Would you advise someone to take out full coverage on a car only worth $1,500 at $100 per month? Of course not, although full coverage is the “best” insurance… this situation would prove that best is not the wisest.

 

[Frank Stastny]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

I disagree with about 100% of you on this subject, so please no one take this personally. But as independent agents we are to give our clients a choice. Some may push Medicare Sups more than Medicare Advantages, but the truth of the matter is that if a Prospect was dead set on a particular plan and only wanted that, you’d sell them that plan.
I guess my only concern is that, I believe a Med Supp (Although the “Best” insurance) is not always the best option. Allow me to explain:

A healthy 65 year old that goes to the Dr. twice a year for a regular check up, would be throwing away money in a Med Sup (again, my opinion). It is more cost effective to Pick up a Zero Premium Medicare Advantage with an Indemnity plan that will cover outpatient surgeries and hospital stays. This would cost them roughly $15 per month. So now this person instead of paying over a $1,000 in unneeded premium per year, they spend $180 per year, rates never go up, and a small copay at the Dr. If for some reason they went into the Hospital, or had to have some kind of outpatient surgery that needed done. They would have ZERO out of pocket.

Another example would be if someone is 65 but very unhealthy. Regularly going to the Dr and being admitted to the hospital. Well then obviously, a supplement would make the most sense for this person.

I guess my point is this, although a Medicare Supplement is hands down the best insurance available to seniors, its not necessarily the wisest choice. Would you advise someone to take out full coverage on a car only worth $1,500 at $100 per month? Of course not, although full coverage is the “best” insurance… this situation would prove that best is not the wisest.

Your logic may be sound today, however, that healthy 65 year old is not going to remain 65 and may not remain healthy. What then?

Regardless of what you may think or have heard, there are agents who have walked away from a sale because they felt the prospect was making a bad choice. I am one of them.

You spoke of a "Medicare Advantage Plan" but were not specific. Did you mean PFFS plans, HMO's or PPO's?

I do not have the luxury, if that is what one wants to call it, of selling HMO's or PPO's to my prospects. I can only offer Med Supps or PFFS plans. I am personally convinced that PFFS plans, the way they are structured, are not a good option for people living in rural Missouri. There are too many doctors who still will not accept them as well as doctors who originally accepted them and now no longer do.

Also, a large portion of my client base travels to warmer climates during the winter. Not all of them go to large metro areas where most doctors do participate in HMO's and PFFS plans.

You stated that if someone was ill at 65 a Med Supp would be a better choice. Unfortunately if that healthy 65 year old develops severe health problems at age 68 a Med Supp will not be available for him. I would have a hard time trying to explain that to him if I had recommended a PFFS plan. How would you explain that to him?

In my mind PFFS plans are too much of a gamble for me to recommend them and sell them over a Med Supp. A person's quality of life is directly related to their degree of health. I would not want to be denied the opportunity to seek out the finest medical care available if I became gravely ill and do not want to put my clients in that position either. I don't believe a PFFS plan gives people that option.

Selling insurance is not always about selling the cheapest thing available. One does not always do the prospect a favor by "saving them money" today by limiting their options for tomorrow.

Like you, that is just my opinion. I have only sold one PFFS plan and that was the only choice available for that person. It's a sad story but another agent caused this ill 78 year old woman to lose her Med Supp policy.

 

[theinuranceguy]

Re: Best Way to Market Medicare Supplements??I need help!

Your logic may be sound today, however, that healthy 65 year old is not going to remain 65 and may not remain healthy. What then?

Regardless of what you may think or have heard, there are agents who have walked away from a sale because they felt the prospect was making a bad choice. I am one of them.

You spoke of a "Medicare Advantage Plan" but were not specific. Did you mean PFFS plans, HMO's or PPO's?

I do not have the luxury, if that is what one wants to call it, of selling HMO's or PPO's to my prospects. I can only offer Med Supps or PFFS plans. I am personally convinced that PFFS plans, the way they are structured, are not a good option for people living in rural Missouri. There are too many doctors who still will not accept them as well as doctors who originally accepted them and now no longer do.

Also, a large portion of my client base travels to warmer climates during the winter. Not all of them go to large metro areas where most doctors do participate in HMO's and PFFS plans.

You stated that if someone was ill at 65 a Med Supp would be a better choice. Unfortunately if that healthy 65 year old develops severe health problems at age 68 a Med Supp will not be available for him. I would have a hard time trying to explain that to him if I had recommended a PFFS plan. How would you explain that to him?

In my mind PFFS plans are too much of a gamble for me to recommend them and sell them over a Med Supp. A person's quality of life is directly related to their degree of health. I would not want to be denied the opportunity to seek out the finest medical care available if I became gravely ill and do not want to put my clients in that position either. I don't believe a PFFS plan gives people that option.

Selling insurance is not always about selling the cheapest thing available. One does not always do the prospect a favor by "saving them money" today by limiting their options for tomorrow.

Like you, that is just my opinion. I have only sold one PFFS plan and that was the only choice available for that person. It's a sad story but another agent caused this ill 78 year old woman to lose her Med Supp policy.

Frank I certainly see where you are coming from. And we are in agreement when you say Medicare Supplements are the best choice, I totally agree. I guess when I sit down with a prospect I really don’t sell a plan, I only give options and am there to answer questions. When I can show the best rates in the state for a Supp and every Med Advantage in the county, its not longer about me peddling a product, but providing my service as to which plan best fits what they are looking for.
It is not my job to tell my client, that this is not a good choice and I will not enroll you in it. It is my job to however to tell them, this plan has a limited network, not many doctors accept it, and they can refuse you at any time. If the client is aware of this, and everyone is on the same page, I have no problem enrolling them in the plan.
Do I have some clients in PFFS? I do… and they know I hate it, I think PFFS are a terrible plan, but, some just cant afford a med supp and they travel a lot. What am I to do? Keep them on original Medicare? Or let the agent behind me sign them up on a plan and fall off the face of the earth?
As for my opinion about Med Advantage + Indemnity VS Med Sup. Here is where I explain to my now sick 68 year old client. Sure you have getting bills now… Good Thing you picked up that Indemnity Plan. Because truth be known… With no Hospital copay and outpatient copay, the out of pocket exposure is quite low.
But to set the record straight. I agree 100% Med sup is better insurance. Its not my job to pressure them into that sale, its my job to facilitate in their selecting process. Now if a client said to me, “Ramiz what do you think” which I get all the time, All I can do is be honest and tell them what I think.

Dayton OH Medicare Supplement

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