Clinton to offer health care plan, only $110,000,000,000 a year

"Please tell me where I need to be more objective with Hillary. Have we not known about her for nearly two decades now?" Her stance on the Iraq war and Patriot Act aren't exactly Liberal, SMAN. That's just off the top of my head. Your quote on her is taken out of context.

"Since I disagree with Hillary on many things and I voice my own opinion, I am not being objective? Give me a break." What do you expect when you put that quote in red and then say that that's how she feels on all issues. Just absurd.

Happy to see that the qualification to be a centrist is two votes that match the majority of the opposite party.

Which stance are you referring to on the Iraq war? The one where she was for it or against it?

As far as the quote in red. If I recall, I stated she said that about the privatization for social security. But she didn't specifically say that privatization isn't the answer to social security. She said privatization isn't the answer to anything. You read into what you want. There isn't a thing you can say to me that will change my mind on Hillary.

As for Hillary being a corporate candidate, most corporations are going to support the candidate they think has the best chance of winning. I'm sure you already know this, but many corporations donate to both parties. Usually it's so they can call in a favor at a later date. Kind of hedging their bets.

So you have a problem with Fox? How about CNN? If they aren't biased I don't know who is. It amazes me that for decades the media bias has always leaned (I'm being kind) to the left and when there is someone who comes along and challenges that, the liberals get upset.

You also asked if the president's spending makes him a liberal. Fiscally - YES! He spends like a liberal. He and the Congress have done a terrible job keeping spending down. Thanks in large part to the war. The last thing we need is to add the cost of universal health care to the mix. Doesn't the cost of the Medicare Prescription Drug plan prove that to you?

Whether you like it or not, our country is divided. I'll be quite honest with you, I really don't care which party gets the presidency as long as neither party controls all 3 (Presidency, Senate and House). We saw what a disaster that could be with both parties.
 
SMAN,

*I'm not trying to sell you on Hillary and don't really care if you don't like her.

*I agree with you on the one party controlling all three branches.

*I don't quite believe you when you say you don't care which party gets in.

*As far as the media being far left, do you recall the Reagan years? The guy could do no wrong in the "far left" media's eyes. The MSM crucified Gore during 1999 and 2000. I read the real liberal media and what you think is liberal is NOT liberal. Fox came along, moved the debate further to the right and branded anyone leftward of them as liberal. Fox unilaterally redefined what is considered liberal and conservative and now its viewers go around calling the rest of the mainstream media liberal. Not the case in my opinion. They are centrist and opportunistic.
 
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I am voting for Kurt Blaha. He is a member of the HealthChoice party and his stance on ACE Riders is unmatched!

Nevermind me, I'll go play with some matches or something...
 
This has become a go no where debate.

To the vast majority of Americans, Hillary is seen as a liberal. As Michael Moore said, what is wrong with that? Hillary pushes to be seen as a centrist.

Very left liberals base your position on the Iraq war as what determines your place in the left/right/central bar of things. Most people look much broader than this. Overall, Hillary's positions on things (not what she says, what she does) leans very far left. Hillary knows she needs a voting record that she can point to as a centrist, and since certain things will pass anyway, she can vote for or against them, so she can point to them later. This just shows she won't vote her principals, just what furthers her career. Yes, this is my opinion.

Fox didn't start the left media bias, it pretty much always existed. The fact that they made it obvious doesn't mean they created it. Fox gets beat up for being a centrist view, since compared to other media, they lean right. That doesn't mean that they lean right.

Yes, I love candidate bashing. Hillary gets the brunt of it because she is easy. Niether party has a great candidate running this time. In 2004, I liked Edwards early on, but then I learned a lot more about him during his stint as a VP candidate, and decided I didn't care much for him either.

Dan
 
Dan.
You and I are simply not ever going to agree on the alleged left/right bias of the mainstream media. SMAN and I never going to see Hillary through the same prism. I am thus retiring from this thread other than waiting for James to grammatically correct his apparent insult towards me on a prior post.

:cool:
 
SMAN,

*I'm not trying to sell you on Hillary and don't really care if you don't like her.

*I agree with you on the one party controlling all three branches.

*I don't quite believe you when you say you don't care which party gets in.

*As far as the media being far left, do you recall the Reagan years? The guy could do no wrong in the "far left" media's eyes. The MSM crucified Gore during 1999 and 2000. I read the real liberal media and what you think is liberal is NOT liberal. Fox came along, moved the debate further to the right and branded anyone leftward of them as liberal. Fox unilaterally redefined what is considered liberal and conservative and now its viewers go around calling the rest of the mainstream media liberal. Not the case in my opinion. They are centrist and opportunistic.

Point 1 - O.K.

Point 2 - Glad to hear it

Point 3 - Makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not

Point 4 - If you say so

I'll say this, the Democrats of old are like the Republicans should be today. JFK comes to mind. Heck, even Georgia's own Zig Zag Zell sounds more like a centrist than Hillary. But you go right on believing she's in the middle. No skin off my back.
 
Hmmm.
Zell Miller the most conservative Democrat in the Senate sounds centrist to you? The guy that supported W Bush and almost defected to GOP?

There's GOP members more liberal than him.
 
Hmmm.
Zell Miller the most conservative Democrat in the Senate sounds centrist to you? The guy that supported W Bush and almost defected to GOP?

There's GOP members more liberal than him.

Yep, he supported Bush. As did other Democrats. However, he never almost defected to the GOP. He stated that he is a life long Democrat and would never switch parties. Go ahead and keep spreading misinformation.

And yes, there may be GOP members more liberal. And there may also be some Dems more conservative. But Hillary's not one of them.
 
"Spreading misinformation?"

Calm down SMAN. Is Zell Miller's Democrat-ness a major concern to you? :D:D:D

Just because he stated that, then that's it, end of story? So, Hillary gets held to a different standard. When she says something then it needs to be questioned a cross checked and not taken at face value. But, when holy Zell Miller says something, then it must be so.

I don't know whether he almost converted so you are correct about that. It was rumored. It seemed appropriate actually. However, nobody can say for sure. Only he knows if he considered it. Bottom line: supporting Bush on nearly every important Senate vote does not equal centrist. Period.
 
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